Utah #1

It's a combination of things Gipper.

And don't think for a minute that Bama fans didn't outnumber UF fans in Atlanta.....not by as much as I am sure they did Utah but outnumber UF they did.

As I said....it's not realistic to think that the Bama offense was the same without Smith or the team as determined and fired up for Utah as they were for Florida.

But I make no argument if Utah winds up #1 in the AP.....but I'll bet a close #2 is all the Utes can achieve.

 

It's not all about you Bill. But then again you probably don't read MCG's posts.

 

I think we can apply that to Texas Tech vs Ole Miss as well. Tech had to be disappointed that they deserved a BCS bowl invite, but watched Cincy and VaTech go when they didn't deserve one and then Graham Harrell was snubbed by the Heisman committee. I doubt they had the same fire for the Cotton Bowl as Ole Miss did...

 

This is not being said to belittle the Gators but I will tell you this: The Gators are playing for the MNC within the system we have. The Utes, since they are not a part of this flawed system, have already played for their NC and could give a crap less what the rest of the nation thinks. They are champions! Recognized or not, they have attained the pinnacle.

 

OK, so does anyone want to piss on Hawaii for not being fired up?

 

Corey, Utah never looked back? I suppose that when Bama pulled within 21 - 17 they didn't look back? Nonsense!

There was a different flow to the two games. However bottom line is both games were very close at the end of the 3rd quarter so I don't quite understand the never looking back comment. I would bet the Utah coach wouldn't buy that analysis.

So here's some comparisons. Florida and Utah had almost the same offensive yardage, about 350 yards. Utah held Bama to less offensive yardage, a little over 200 yards and Bama had over 300 yards against the Gators. However a little offset to that is the 73 yard punt return that Bama had for a td against Utah that doesn't show up as offensive yardage but I think you would have to agree is much the same.

If you don't agree, then let's just say that Florida held Bama to less return yardage than Utah did.

Time of possession, Bama had more against Utah.

Both Florida and Utah made their final scores with just under 3 minutes to play to cinch the game.

If you want to make another comparison then in two games that were very close at the end of the 3rd quarter, 21 - 17 Utah in the Sugar Bowl and 20 -17 Alabama in the SEC Championship game. In the 4th quarter Florida outscored Bama 14 - 0 and Utah outscored them 3 - 0.

Both games Bama could have won in the 4th quarter, but in both games the other team took control and it didn't happen.

I grant that the Utah game didn't seem as exciting as the game with the Gators because of the way that Utah jumped on them in the first quarter. However after than it was a different story,

Unlike your take on the game I am in no way putting Utah down, but am saying there was not as much difference as you say. The stats just don't back up your position.

 

I read them and didn't comment. His opinion is his and he stated it in a fair manner.

However he's just one opinion and while I realize it isn't about me it sure does seem to me you painted the whole Gator program for making excuses for one persons opinion! And by the way MCG has said something I haven't said yet and that is he's ok with a split National Champion, meaning he respects what Utah accomplished.

At this point I haven't said that so you don't know what I think there. However I hardly think that someone who does feel that way as Dave does gives any logical reason to paint the Gators as being # 1 in the spin department.

Only two Gators have posted here and both of us have expressed admiration for the way Utah played.

 

Not now, I'll have to think on that for a bit.

Actually I was rooting for Notre Dame and am glad you guys won.

 

I think Terry has it pretty well right.

Here's Bill's final top 5 rankings, not my predictions, but the way I would rank the teams after the Bowls are all finished.

1. Gators/Sooners winner
2. Utah
3. Texas if they Beat Ohio State
4. So. Cal
5. Gators/Sooner loser

If Texas loses to Ohio State then Ohio State is #5 with So Cal moving to 3rd and the loser of the Gators and Sooners moving to # 4.

 

All good points Bill and I agree.

Not sure what Hawaii is doing in this discussion or the relevance.

At the end either OU or Fla will be BCS National Champion and I suspect AP Champion as well. Utah will fall into the also ran category that Auburn did in 2003 and if they did get BCS voter consideration as perhaps they should have the computer polls may have done them in with the low schedule ranking they had.

Well done Utes for the Sugar win and 13-0.

 

Bill,

I hosted a party of a few dozen Tide fans who, just like KP has, would firmly disagree with you. One thing I have refused to mention until right now is that the officials did a fair job of keeping Bama in this game... and Utah committed a turnover (that was the 21-17 part) in their own territory.

How long did that 4 point gap last? I can't give you the exact number but I'd bet it wasn't more than 3 or 4 minutes. Bama kicked off and Utah took the next drive right down their throat.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here but I can't see how. As KP pointed out, during the SEC title game he was on the edge of his seat till the end...

In the Sugar Bowl... Bama was on their heels from early on in the first qtr and were slowly bludgeoned over the course of the game.

As Tom pointed out, and should be obvious to all, this system is deeply flawed. What we are playing under is essentially a 'whites only drinking fountain' brand of discrimination and I just don't see how more people don't stand up against it..

We are telling groups of people that they are simply not worthy of equal consideration simply because of who they are and where they come from... but people get paid....

 

I'm sorry Terry but I'm calling BS.

Utah beat Michigan, and Oregon state in their noncons. They won a conference that produced 3 10 win teams. Their conference top to bottom stands up well against ANY OTHER CONFERENCE IN THE LAND... On-field results should that their next to worst team beat a Tennessee team in Knoxville that is essentially the 'next to worst' team in the SEC... (sorry Tom, it is only for this year).

There is no comparison to the Gonzaga's of the world here.

 

Corey, of course the system is flawed, no one denies that one.

So now the officials kept Bama close. Just why would they do that?

I respect both your's and KP's opinion. However the facts and stats just don't back you up that Utah did that much better against Bama than Florida. It's easy to get carried away with the first quarter drubbing that Utah handed Bama and overlook the fact that for the rest of the game Bama held their own and pulled within 4 points.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine and yours just don't match as to their being a major difference in the two match ups.

 

Don't try to make this a conspiracy. They just made some horsesh8t calls in that game. Of course, you can say they didn't but you'd be the first to say that.

The false start penalty that forced utah to point on 4th down before halftime comes to mind as one awful example.

I suppose you can sit here and tell me how close the game was while I sat here with dozens of Tide fans screaming, yelling and throwing things because they were getting physical beat down...

 

The facts and stats???

bill did you read my previous post.

The stats do you know favors at all. The yardage in the UF-Bama game was nearly identical.

You rushed JPW a few times but got to him only once. They ran well on you.

The couldn't move the ball against Utah. Utah outgained them by more than 150 yards...sacked JPW 8 times and knocked him down countless more times.

Aside from a fumble and a punt return for a TD, this was a total blowout... The games aren't the same AT ALL and not even the numbers (aside from the final score) side with you here.

 

It came after a comment about Miss. and TT which I guess was relevant.

 

There you go again Corey.

Yes Utah held Alabama to less yards. However they got 73 yards on one punt return for a td. Last time I watched football what that meant to the statistics is that Utah had two possessions that counted in the statistics to none for Alabama. Those return yards count on the scoreboard but not in the stats. You choose to ignore them.

Me make it a conspiracy, hardly. I think the game was fairly called. Seems I remember more than one time that you called MCG's hand for complaining about the refs.

The refs did their job. Utah won the game and was the better team that night. But you are way wrong if you say the stats don't do me any favor. Yes Utah held Bama to less yards, but you want to just dismiss the punt return and say what would have happened if that didn't happen. In fact it did happen and you are the one ignoring the effect of that even on stats.

And call a foul on Terry? That's your call, I agree with him. In an 8 team playoff I would see the final being between one of Florida, Oklahoma, Texas or USC. Utah would fall by the wayside in either the first or second round.

A very good team and if they win the AP this year that's fine by me.

Besides it's Urban Meyer's, the Gator coach, who built that program and there is no doubt he did a good job which the coach is continuing. He may get a better job down the line also.

 

OK here's my top 5
1. Utah won EVERY game they played. If beating Alabama was enough to put a team into the NC game, beating them better was proof that they were the best.
2. USC Stumbled once on the road in conference play. Played a solid Noncon schedule. Had very impressive defensive stats.
3. Fla. if they beat OK. If OK wins, Tex is 3rd because Texas was better than OK at least if you care about who wins when the teams play on a neutral field.
4. OK if they beat Fla. Texas if Fla. wins.
5. Fla.-OK loser.

 

I saw some of the poorest tackling by Alabama last Friday night that I have seen this year in the SEC.

You could say that the Bama defense lacked intensity.....or you could say Utah was just so strong that they broke those tackles.

I don't think Alabama is normally all that bad at fundamentals.....when their heart is in the game.

 

Fair enough Gipper. I certainly recognize the right of everyone to have an opinion of their own.

I just happen to agree with Terry that teams like Utah wouldn't make it all the way through a playoff.

But having different opinions kind of make the world go around and make for nice discussions.

Actually I think Ole Miss belongs up there. After all they beat Texas Tech who beat Texas who beat Oklahoma. To top it off they beat Florida. So Ole Miss really belongs in the top 10 don't you think?

Then of course Vandy beat Ole Miss who lost to Duke.

Oh well.