so, so many answers <r>George,<br/> <br/> Buyer beware? You better be ready to come up with better consumer rights than that. If that's the case, I full endorse athletes being able to up and transfer while retaining immediate eligibility 1 time in their careers.<br/> <br/> Terry and Bill,<br/> <br/> H-o-l-y S-h-*-t. How long until someone plays the 'it depends on what your definition of 'is' is'?<br/> <br/> Graduation rates can be looked at a lot of ways, true. Some coaches, and Meyer is one of them, who has (in the past) overstated the truth (how's that? I assumed you guys would like that)..The great thing about that tactic is that when your numbers really aren't bad you can just say 'oops'.. That's disingenuous at best.<br/> <br/> As to the Peter Vaas situation:<br/> <br/> He is the coach that bad mouthed, and got caught up in the negative recruiting war with Illinois over that A. Benn kid at Illinois. He was relieved of duties and took a job at Duke. I can't believe more ND fans don't know about that as its fairly common knowledge. That's not inside scoop stuff. He got caught up in the mud slinging, and still lost the recruit. Weis cut ties with the guy... Benn went public to the DC media about it after Vaas had been fired.. Charlie still took heat for it though.<br/> <br/> Joel,<br/> <br/> Coaching nowhere at this time. I moved to this God forsaken place to be a good husband and failed epically at that..I stay here to do the good parent thing, and for that reason only.<br/> <br/> I still have friends, good friends, who I remain in contact with. Some in the NFL, some coaching collegiate football and baseball. A few in college hoops although I've kept in rare touch with most of them...I keep in touch with lots and lots of people in MLB still.. But I'm not here to name drop.<br/> <br/> Its the internet. You don't have to believe me. I could care less if you, or anyone, does. Rest assured, when I tell you that I've heard something.. it sure as hell isn't from an 'inside source board op over on rivals' or some other lame organization...<br/> <br/> For example...<br/> <br/> I can tell you that members of two different staffs in the SEC have shared with me their opinions on Mattison. He was greatly underestimated coming into the league by other staffs.. The opinion that he bad mouths people and is a dirty (not illegal) recruiters is now something that's long running dating back to his time at Michigan.. It appears the locals in these parts are finding that out first hand.. <br/> <br/> <IMG src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d199/Twenty4fps1/small_world_xmas.jpg"><s></e></IMG></r>
ha <t>I lost that a looong time ago... Much too much to go into about life in AL.<br/> <br/> I like it well enough though. There just isn't a lot of opportunity here, and yes, I'm in Alabama. <br/> <br/> I was working for the evil empire Walgreens until a recent illness allowed them to terminate me (yes, that's legal in AL)..I've started an internet business thing to finance Christmas and a few other things since I got whacked before the holidays. We'll see how that goes.</t>
well ill say again...hang in there! Becareful if you are investing in some of these "internet businesses!"
not investing <t>little to no overhead.<br/> <br/> slow to build a return customer base. its ok so far. im not putting all my eggs in that basket.. its just something that was used to essentially save christmas,</t>
Holy Sh*t Corey, how long do you think it will be before you understand that with the same set of data it can be stated, truthfully, several different ways. I've seen from the NCAA, 6 year grad rates, 5 year grad rates, and Meyer has access to more current information from the University of Florida. I can tell you for a fact that Gator athletes are doing the best they have done in a long long time because of Meyer and his approach. He has every right to use the current information in his presentations, if you can't grasp that it says a lot more about you than him. Where it comes to Mattison, so what if you know someone that don't like the way he recruits. I do not doubt for one minute that if you were to divulge your sources and someone would do an in depth search we could easily find two people who don't like the way they recruit. From the story you told us about your recruiting we could find a couple of people who didn't like the way you recruited. Two people we don't even know doesn't tell much of a story. I don't doubt for one minute that there are a number of folks in the SEC that don't care for the Gators and the way they recruit. For the most part that's because in the last 6 years we've been very successful at recruiting. You don't like the way the Gators, or at least some Gators, recruit I can accept that with no problem what so ever. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but when you want to put your opinions out as fact, such as graduation rates, without acknowledging that data might be looked at another way, then I am not going to just accept that. Neither am I going to get into the game the way I used to by finding evidence that your school, Notre Dame, may do some things either. It's tough business with a lot at stake, I'm comfortable with what my school does and don't have any reason to knock yours but don't intend to accept negative things you put out there as fact unless you have something more to back it up.
I agree Bill, it's the same over on Texas boards...there are schools who Texas fans think are dirty recruiters, esp LSU...esp since Ryan Peraloux dumped Mack on signing day for LSU. I'm used to hear from some Penn State fans that ND coaches told catholic kids they owed it to their religion to come to ND or something like that. I've heard that Pumpkinhead (Terry Bowden) used to tell kids that if you went to Notre Dame that they made you go to Mass everyday. I've heard it all. In the end though it's really on the kids and their parents. I truly don't think kids and their parents (with few exceptions) care about grad rates, at least the highly recruited kids. It's old history to them. They care about their position coach, the system, do they fit it, the social life, the living arrangements, the weather, will they be prepared for the NFL, etc. If they all really cared about education and grad rates then ND, Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, etc would rule the college football world. There was a story a year or so ago that Charlie was a dirty recruiter that he was negative. It was a claim made by a Clemson TE to a So.Car sportswriter, it made ESPN. Turns out that what the kid was talking about was a spreadsheet that Charlie has made up with the grad rates for ND vs the schools that this kid was considering at the time (including Clemson), as you can imagine ND came out on top in all the stats (which we usally do in this area). To the kid it was negative recruiting showing him that Clemson (which i'm told is actually a pretty good school) doesn't measure up to ND when graduating players is evaluating. It all depends on who's ox is being gored. Terry
As as always been a great habit with you Terry, you mange to hit the nail right on the head and express it in a way we all understand. The only difference I might have with what you said is that I do think the education is important to a lot of parents, even the parents of some of the better athletes. I think more important that some of us might think and that is one of the things Urban is selling, that he will make sure these kids attend class and give academics a good shot. However I think we may lose some great athletes who are not interested in that type program also. But as I said, you nailed it!
I agree with everything that Corey said here and I don't understand what Bill or the dos Terrys are talking about. If Corey has to explain to you guys what "lying" is, then he's already won the argument...
I've been waiting for you to chip in JO'Co with this very predicable response. Of course you think Corey has won the argument, and if in fact Corey had to explain lying to us, which he didn't, or explained it correctly then you would be right. Here's Corey's so called explanation of lying That's motherhood and apple pie. Of course if you overtly did those things you would be lying. However I'll tell you again that especially where it comes to graduation rates there are not only one set of stats out there to be used. Corey doesn't seem to recognize that and apparently neither do you. You made it obvious in a post about Moody, the RB that transferred from USC, some time ago that you thought Meyer was a liar. You and Corey are entitled to that opinion, but in my opinion you are dead wrong. I'll stack Meyer and his staffs integrity against any out there and that includes Notre Dame. I'm not saying that he's better, but that Meyer does things the right way as I think also happens at Notre Dame as well as other schools. Of course Notre Dame, Florida, Ohio State, LSU, in fact any major school is going to put portray their program in the best possible light. Just like Corey did, and should have, in the example he gave us. But hey different opinions are what makes the world go around eh? :lol: :lol:
actually <t>i had a huge response to you guys written out last night before we found someone piggy backing on our router and my roommate killed my connection before i could send my response.. nor did he tell me this so i wandered around like an a-hole trying to figure out what happened to the internet connection...<br/> <br/> by the time he made it back out to tell me that we finally caught the little sob leaching our bandwidth, i had lost interest in the discussion and took my son to books a million.<br/> <br/> as far as motherhood and apple pie, that's bullsh*t. the reality is that you can be honest and hold yourself to a higher standard. many take the low road...the low road is the only road traveled in southern football so i can see where you wouldn't take exception.<br/> <br/> you can say your program operates at a higher ethical standard but i cited an example in which an ND coach was let go after it became clear he was using negative recruiting tactics.. <br/> <br/> basically, and back to my original point, meyer isn't the boogeyman that nd (and other fans) have painted him out to be.. that title goes to mattison.<br/> <br/> he was a dirty recruiter BEFORE he came to ND. he was a dirty recruiter AT ND. somehow he found integrity in gainsville?? well praise the lord and pass the ammunition!! i know that you gators think its god's country down there but i didn't realize salvation achieved just be donning the orange and blue..<br/> <br/> and to be clear again... about meyer, the ONLY problem i've had with him is that i've read (and heard) reports where meyer's numbers are a little off..but like you said, numbers can be twisted.<br/> <br/> since you guys want to keep talking about that trattou kid...<br/> <br/> did you see that after splitting time at a position he was told he wouldn't play at UF, he has now been moved full-time to the position?</t>
All of this points up the need for an early signing period. If we had that then kids like Omar Hunter would either have to sign in August and end their recruitment or they would have to not give their verbal. If they gave a verbal but refused to sign the LOI the team with the verbal would know the score with the kid, he's not commited. The benefit to the coaches is that they know where they stand with the kid. The benefit to the kid is that they lock up their situation. We all know how hard it is to think you have a position set and then stop recruiting for it and have your other targets move on, then to have a kid jump ship and now you have to either have a hole in the class or to have to go try to get it filled likely with a lesser player. Personally I blame the kids as much as the coaches. It used to be that coaches respected other teams verbals, slowly that was chipped away and now it's open season till the LOI's are faxed into the school. Some coaches, within the rules, do things that to me just aren't ethical. I remember the C. J. Leake situation, he and his parents were at ND only 2 weeks before the LOI day and they confirmed to Bob Davie that they were comming. But at that time they had already made a deal with the Wake Forrest coach who wanted to get a lot of publicity by stealing away Leake, the Parents, the Kid and the Wake Forrest coach all conspired to keep the information away from Davie that Leake was actually going to sign with Wake instead of ND. I'm sure the Wake people all thought this was just fine and it was totally legal, the kid was making a huge decision and he was entitled to do it any way he wanted. It still didn't make it ethical. The Brian Smith to ND situation is slightly different, sure the kid was committed to Iowa, and sure he changed late in the game. But in this case when ND got a new DCoord, Brian's dad called ND (he played at ND) and asked if the new guy had any interest (Minter didn't). Corwin Brown looked at his film and Charlie told them that they could come for an offical visit only if they notified Iowa that they were doing it, they could have played it like the Wake Forrest coach did but they didn't. Sure Iowa was pissed and told him that if he went to ND on a visit his scholarship was gone (to Iowa). But at least they knew he was looking and weren't blindsided on signing day. Which would have been totally legal and within Brians rights. So I'm am upset that Omar Hunter is going to likely go to Fla, but if that's where he wants to be then fine that's were he should go and if he asked me I'd say go where you want to go it's the right thing to do. But right now he's jerking the Irish around and they really can't do anything about it. He should publically deommit if he has any integrity, he should call Charlie and tell him he doesn't want to go to ND and end it. Naturally most ND fans believe Urban is manipulating all of this, that he has asked Hunter to not make a public decomit that he wants him to go to the All Star game as a ND verbal and then on Nat'l TV make the change. I personally don't like that, but it's not illegal, no NCAA rule will have been broken. But I don't like it. My guess is that none of you really care for that sort of senario and would just as soon your guys don't do stuff like that, but in the end we all move on and are glad to get any great player like Hunter even if his recruitment was sort of contentious at the end.
Corey, so why don't you make your network secure so no one can piggyback? As to your post! A sure sign that someone doesn't have anything more constructive to say is when they result to insults. You make your own argument about higher standards a joke when you result to this kind of bullsh*t answer. I understand why you do it though when some of just don't accept your infinite wisdom about our programs which you obviously know so much more about than us dumb southerners. First I didn't say our program operated at a higher ethical standard than Notre Dame, I said I would stack our program up against any program. That doesn't mean one wins and one loses, it means I think both operate on a high plane. So quit trying to make it a ours is better than yours argument. Well gee thanks on behalf of Meyer, I still don't agree with you about Mattison. Again, BS. Your character assignation of Mattison has no basis in fact other than I guess because Corey says so it must be so. Well nonsense, this kind of crap should be beneath your dignity! No, I clearly did not say twisted, I said that the same data set can be presented in different ways. I also said that there is more than one set of data available and that before you criticize someone for one of their statements you should understand where the data came from. So you've read someones report and heard somewhere that Meyer's numbers are off, that's certainly definitive. I have to admire your diligence in assuring your data set is right before running right out of the park with it! I've heard some talk he may move inside in the spring, I've also heard he may not, and I've heard he may be a player that does both, like Ray McDonald from our last years team. Of course I completely understand that your inside information about Florida probably exceeds mine! I don't really want to keep this up Corey, but I'll leave that to you. What I will not do is accept your bashing my program, southern football or my coaches unless you have a better understanding and proof than what you've presented here.
Corey, I agree with you that if a kid is going to de-commit he should tell the coaches. As to Hunter I don't know the story but have heard rumors he may come to Florida. I think it's very possible that both the Notre Dame staff and the Gator staff know what is going on even if we do not. Your points are well taken, and I agree about the early signing period. I've heard recently things could be moving in that direction.
yeah if Corey's router was secure then nobody would be able to piggyback on it...it's not hard to secure it, and if you are not securing it so that when you have friends over who have laptops with them they can access the internet just like they were at Starbucks then that's just stupid. All you have to do is give them the password/key when they want on your network. makes no sense to have an open network.
many things <r>-Secure networking:<br/> <br/> We had it password protected, we had to open it up because there was something going wrong with the PCs on the network. The laptops were fine (mac or pc), but the desktops weren't connecting, or even seeing, the network. We took the pw off for a while to try to find the problem and then forgot to put it back on.<br/> <br/> Our piggy backer was a regular somewhere here downtown who was using a lot of bandwidth. Its probably going to suck for him the next time he reboots. But we have it taken care of, thanks <E></E><br/> <br/> -Early signing period:<br/> <br/> I would like this. Weis really wants this. I think it would be a good thing for the game and, hopefully, reduce a bit of the sleaze in recruiting.<br/> <br/> -Sources:<br/> <br/> I'll say this and end my contribution to this. The Mattison stuff isn't my personal smear campaign. This isn't even top secret info. He's a bad mouther going back to his days at Michigan... This situation reminds me of one in the past.<br/> <br/> I had a disagreement with a Vol fan awhile back about some recruiting things that had gone on. They demanded that I cite sources or whatever I say didn't have merit.. it carried over to email for a while. This person just refused the chance that I could know anyone who had close ties to the program. There was also some scuttle butt over a kid who went to Ole Miss... For once, the people I talked to weren't coaches.. They were the players themselves and their families but I sure as hell wasn't going to divulge that information.<br/> <br/> The kid who went to Ole Miss was actually friends with my nephew (thru marriage to Desiree) and even she knew the kid well.. The two Vol players had family and friends both that worked with me. One was from Russelville and the other Muscle Shoals, Alabama. They're both gone and in the NFL now so I don't have to worry about Volfans on the net going apesh*t and stalking some kid...and btw, that stuff happens A LOT. We have a small enough community here that I can throw something out there and you can believe it, or discount it..Its all fine by me. But to win an arguement on the internet, I'd rather be thought to be the bullsh*tter. <br/> <br/> I really have no agenda here. Like I said, believe it or not...but its a small world, after all.. Living in this part of the country, its even more so..</r>
I'm willing to drop it too Corey but I have to also say one more thing, Mattison is highly thought of by Gator fans and by his players. We are extremely glad he is at Florida. He's been a class act the whole time he's been there and obviously Meyer thinks highly of him or he wouldn't have brought him in as co defensive coordinator since Stong was already there and has been a defensive coordinator for years. Mattison may have the reputation you say, but keep this in mind, and I mean nothing negative about it, according to the interesting story you told us about your recruiting there are people out there right now that could be saying much the same about you. My point being of course that perception is not always reality. Like you I'm willing to let this go, but as I think you know about me I am as passionate about my Gators as you are about Notre Dame. I realize that my school is not perfect, but you know what I doubt a goody two shoes survives as the head coach at either one of our schools.