Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN, Aug 14, 2023.
WE THE PEOPLE!
It's almost 3 years since the crimes, as alleged, were committed, that doesn't seem like hyper speed to bring felony charges in my book, glacial more like it. My take is that the DOJ under Garland was hesitant to sack up and bring charges because of the political blow back.
Now the indictments are upon us, I think objective and reasonable people can agree that it is in the overwhelming interest of the people to have a trial, a fair finding of the facts and a timely judgement by a jury in advance of any election. I would think that it goes without saying that the electorate has a compelling need to know whether or not one of the nominees for President was guilty of election fraud and gross negligence and complete disregard for established safeguards relative to handling of our most sensitive national security secrets (and those of our allies as well) and obstructing the investigation thereof. It would also seem to be in the best interest of the defendant, if he is innocent as he claims, to have that cloud removed from his candidacy beyond a reasonable doubt. If I were a candidate and certain of my innocence, a speedy trial and public finding of my innocence beyond a reasonable doubt to clear my name and reputation would be priority #1. His continued efforts to delay should speak volumes.....
In your 2nd paragraph, are speaking about Biden? If so you left out treason, wrongfull monetary gain, and habitual lying.
What is the crime Trump is charged with in the civil suit over his property values? If he inflated them, did the banks not catch it doing their due diligence? Did he default on the loans that the banks gave him?
Jurys back with their verdict; Bring that innocent next president in here then...
That he is a fraud and a cheat is not in question, that has been evidenced as fact in other proceedings. His company was found guilty of criminal tax fraud and his CFO is in prison for same. That he as principal skated on any fraudulent certification charge is a mystery to me and most others that have ever been in that same position as I have. He has filed for bankruptcy protection six times and left banks, investors, employees and suppliers holding the bag and eating hundreds of $millions in losses. You defend this guy and attempt to normalize this behavior as if it is harmless fun for which he has no accountability, when nothing could be further from the truth. There is a reason his accounting firm dumped him and recently disclosed that decades worth of audited financial statements can no longer be relied upon because there is no audited financial statement ever developed that doesn't to some degree rely on management statements, info and analysis. If they are not held to account, it is of no value.
Krebsie, you're a successful business man and I know that you must appreciate the cost of mispricing risk, inflating asset values, misleading investors, eroding the integrity of our system of financial statements, disclosures and certifications and loss of investor confidence. We're seen this movie before and we know how it ends...it was called the Great Recession or Global Financial Crisis in 2007-2008 and wiped $Trillion$ away from household balance sheets and pillaged the treasury's of the worlds leading developed nations. We minimize the importance of integrity and accountability in our society at our own peril. This guy is no different than any other fraudster or cheat, he needs to be held to account for his actions.
All that said, that is in addition to but has nothing to do his treachery related to election fraud and gross negligence in handling this nation's and our close allies most sensitive national security information that I was referencing above in this topic. There is no plausible defense for this guy beyond that which is rooted in political partisanship
First of all, may famous successful people have filed for bankruptcy. The list included Henry Ford and Walt Disney. You make it sound as though it is not the risk an entrepreneur takes. I wiling to bet that companies Trump has delt with have filed leaving him "holding the bad too."
Apparently in NY if I go into a used car dealership wanting to sell my car and the dealer askes me what I want and I tell him it's worth 10,000 and the blue book value is 8,000, I've committed a crime. The fact that he doesn't pay me 10,000 for the car makes no difference. Probably happens thousands of times a day but the law is only enforced on political enemies.
Perhaps if our justice department would have been more concerned about protecting our most sensitive national security information when Hillary Clinton was posting classified documents on a non secure server that most likely WAS HACKED, I'd be able to see why keeping documents as a location guarded by Secret Service agents is gross negligence.
Oh and did anyone notice the insurrection that occurred yesterday when the Capitol rotunda was invaded by Pro Palestinian protestors. Wonder how many years that they'll get.
"Former Donald Trump attorney Sidney Powell has pleaded guilty in the Georgia election subversion case, one day before her trial was set to start.
Fulton County prosecutors are recommending a sentence of six years probation. Powell will also be required to testify at future trials and write an apology letter to the citizens of Georgia."
I'm no attorney, but her agreeing to a deal would seem to be a problem for the former President.
Trump attorney Sidney Powell pleads guilty in Georgia election subversion case | CNN Politics
Gip, you'll have to refresh my memory and remind me again which one of them led a company that was found guilty of criminal tax fraud and had the CFO sent to the pokey for his misdeeds? That said, it should go without saying that your guy is not the first famous person that is also a fraud and a cheat, they are not mutually exclusive.
She won't be doing any time based on the plea deal but she probably will lose her license to practice law. If you read the article she was part of an effort to gain entry into a county election records to LOOK FOR ELECTION FRAUD. There's no indication that they attempted to change the outcome. This reinforces the position that the Trump people believed that the election had been rigged and that they were attempting to uncover proof. I wonder what lyrics they're getting her to sing to stay out of jail?
"That said, it should go without saying that your guy is not the first famous person that is also a fraud and a cheat, they are not mutually exclusive."
Well your guy in the White House has sure gotten wealthy on his politicians salary. Bank records have shown millions of dollars flowing into his family's many corporations from foreign sources with nary a penny in taxes being paid.
And while we're going over all of your rantings, the CEO was taking money from the Trump company and using it for an apartment, car leases, and tuition for his grandchild at a private school. He wasn't paying income taxes on this off the books compensation. I'm sure in your mind that somehow reflects on Trump but it's nothing more than a guy abusing his position in a company, any company and taking compensation off the books.
Sorry Gip, not my guy in the White House, didn't vote for him, never been a supporter and have been harshly critical of many of his policies and his fundamental view of the role of government, but I digress. Trump's CFO was engaged in an age old fraud beneficial to both he and the company for which he went to jail and Trumps company, for their part in the fraud, was fined in excess of $1.5 million. The notion that his boss was not aware of or complicit in the scheme is simply not plausible for a competent CEO much less a business genius. You keep defending this guy and making a noble effort to normalize his behavior. It's not normal, it's criminal. He is being held to account as he should and his supporters are scurrying to his defense out of political partisanship undeterred by the lack of merit inherent in their arguments. Nobody should be surprised.
As it relates to Trump's Kraken, my guess is that her testimony and first hand account of the operation intended to over turn the will of the people will be helpful to the prosecutors. There is now two that have taken a plea and agreed to cooperate, no doubt there will be more. In truth, I expect Rudy to come clean soon. Given her access and inside knowledge, the Kraken cave is a devastating blow to team Trump, Rudy would be checkmate and send team Trump racing to get the best deal they possibly can.....he's gotta be wobbly on the Kraken news as well he should
Sorry T had you in the "has a guy throws bombs at the other guy's guy." I've put you in the "doesn't have a guy, throws bombs at everyone else's guy" category.
Gip, I respect your loyalty to your cause, admire your grit and enjoy your wit! I'm not throwing any bombs anywhere nor are they of my creation. Merely pointing out their existence on the electoral roadway to the unsuspecting so that we as a nation don't get blown up....again. You're correct, I don't have a guy at present but I do have standards that don't include fraudsters, cheats, insurrectionists who have betrayed their people nor those who have led a company found guilty of criminal fraud or personally liable for sexual abuse. That wouldn't seem to be asking for too much.....
I often wonder that if Benedict Arnold had been alive today whether or not he would have had to flee behind British lines for safety after his treachery was evidenced. In this day and age in our political climate perhaps he would have just needed to announce his candidacy for President and seek the safety of his political partisans because the crime for which Arnold has been vilified by history absolutely pales in comparison to this guy. Arnold was simply trying to give away West Point, this guy tried to steal the whole enchilada. You know as well as I, the Kraken flip has got him sweating bullets....gonna get real for him very soon
Was it a flip? With all the payoffs, bribes, and hush money being tossed around I really REALLY wonder.
So what you two are saying is that we have a choice between two old farts who are capping off careers of profiteering, one in the private sector, the other in public "service". Two men of such dubious character that you would never want them as a neighbor or even consider hiring them for even a low level job. Two octogenarian scalawags who have always placed themselves above all others. Now that that we've cleared that up, please continue.
Husker, of course it was a bribe, all plea deals/flips are bribes along some dimension....same kind of bribe that every prosecutor of every political stripe in every jurisdiction in every civilized country has been using to squeeze criminal defendants for centuries. You plead guilty, tell me what you know about the other guys when I ask and I won't throw your a$$ into prison. Obviously, the more likely it is that the perp is guilty and going to prison, the more likely it is that the perp begins to sing.
The Kraken plea was a big enough problem for Trump, the Chesebro flip appears to this non-attorney to be vastly more perilous on a whole different level for him. Chesebro, appearing in front of the judge, stated to the court that he did in fact work with Trump, Giuliani, Eastman, et al to fraudulently certify the Georgia electors. My bet is that the Trump legal team is already considering the chances of copping a plea even if they haven't discussed it with their client. The Chesebro flip has to be devastating to his chances of staying out of jail
Lawyer Kenneth Chesebro, indicted alongside Trump, pleads guilty in Georgia election case
Great leadership is huge on my radar George. So far I've only seen hopes of that from Trump, Pence, and Kennedy.
I understand the concept Terry, what I don't understand is the evilness in it all. It's obvious that the swamp will DO ANYTHING, and get people to SAY ANYTHING to get this guy. Evil, underhanded, cheating, bribery ways I tell ya. Not what a former president that I believe truly cared about this country deserves. The current administration doesn't care about us, our history, or the established roadmap.
They're doing what the people of Georgia, to whom they have sworn a duty, elected them to do to protect their interests and the institutions of our democracy. You understand duty well, they can't ignore the facts that are set out in front of them by corroborated testimony and physical evidence. To do any different would be a dereliction of their duty and fail. No different than what anybody else anywhere would do that believes strongly in their duty to the people.
Your guy will have his day in court. He will be given the opportunity to put forth a rigorous defense and challenge every shred of evidence and testimony. If the weight of the evidence is such as you believe, he's got nothing to worry about. My guess.....he's gonna plead out cause he knows d@mn well he's guilty, the weight of the evidence is overwhelming and will go to jail if he doesn't. At this point, it's almost a certainty that Rudy flips....I know you love the guy, but he's a convicted fraudster, crook and it will be evidenced beyond a reasonable doubt that he betrayed you and everyone of his people and the entirety of our nation in his treachery.
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