Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN, Aug 14, 2023.
Those well doers are extremely scared of this guy ain't they? GAME ON.
In my view this country is the weakest it has been in my lifetime. We are vulnerable on several fronts; economically in the form of shared and personal debt and inflation, militarily, technologically, educationally and in natural resources. Add the undeniable fact that we are more divided that at any time since 1860 and we are in crisis. We do not have time for two severely damages octogenarians, neither of whom are fit for office or of a mind to unite this country to continue this farce for another four years. We need to move on.... now!
Not sure who you're referring to specifically but to me the "well-doers" are those 100 or so private everyday citizens in NY, DC, FL and GA that were called upon to perform their civic duty, heard testimony and were presented evidence such that at least the majority in each case believed that there was probable cause to believe that there were multiple crimes committed as alleged, including 91 felony counts. They are the ones that indicted him, I'm pretty sure they're not the least bit afraid of him
I agree 100%. We are at our strongest united behind a common purpose, we are never more weak than when we are divided. In my view, we've never been more divided in my lifetime. If "none of the above" was on the ballot, they'd win in a landslide. I can't ever remember that
Well-doers are the politician criminals who have been lining their pockets behind America's back, and are deathly afraid of round 2 with Trump. I don't disagree with most of your points Terry, George...but this is made for TV, Bush League tactics to hinder Trumps re-election bid. A bid that has him the front runner. Seems to me that "they" don't want the people to speak. I'm reminded of Animal Farm. Two times they tried to impeach him. TWO TIMES. Nothing. This has a stench to it beyond comparison to what has been implemented on someone never seen in my lifetime. Ok, so maybe "they" win and prevent him from running again. Who then? Another chance on someone with fresh views? We need action now. Next Prez better have the right answers and move forward plans, or this just gets worse, just like 1860. The common folks are getting fed up, you can feel it. GAME ON is my belief that this latest attempt is a catalyst for the start of severe retribution headed back the other way. But what good would that do...right?
Jury of one's Peers huh? Just community, or toss in a dash of political ideology? They tried to impeach the guy twice Terry. You don't think they'd try and stack the deck this time?
Getting rid of the top of the tree doesn't remove the rot. DC is full of individuals with an agenda and the Constitution means nothing to them. We have administrative agencies that willfully exceed their constitutional authority in order to advance their agenda. Most obvious is the EPA which has already been rebuked by the SCOTUS but continues to dictate how every American must live. We've even seen this happen with the CDC which issued a moratorium on rents during Covid when they knew that they didn't have the authority. (But like all leftists the end justifies the means) When the boss is unconstitutionally forgiving student debt...why not?
We've lost all sense of morality and decency. When a member of Congress who was exposed to have lied to the American people about the Russian involvement in a Presidential Campaign, when he said over and over again that he had seen clear evidence when he had not, when that individual gets an ovation from other members of Congress then we've lost all sense of morality.
Having been a member of the justice system of this country for 4 decades, I can't tell you how saddened I am to see what's become of it. Sweetheart deals and selective prosecution have no plaice in our Federal Justice system. It's become political sport to perp walk your political opponent.
Our government is rotten to the core and removing the infected parts will leave little remaining. Our present population is swimming in an ocean of ignorance and unaware of the danger facing this country.
In case you missed it, here's an interview with the foreperson of the Ga. jury. Probably selected because she was the brightest of the bunch. The future leadership of our country is supposed to be partially based on her decision???interview of georgia grand jury forman - Google Search
My dear Husker friend, the people DID speak, loud and clear and have spoken repeatedly. They spoke in 2020. Their voices were validated across the land in scores of counts, recounts, hand recounts, forensic audits, etc. They spoke again in dozens of court rooms around the country in red states and blue states in front of liberal judges, Trump appointees and the SCOTUS. The answer was the same, but he didn't like what the people said...so he did the unthinkable.
They spoke again in the mid-terms of 2022, kicking the majority of his hand-picked sycophants, election deniers and cultists to the curb and taking the Senate from him and providing the right with only the slimmest of unworkable majorities in the House....in spite of it being against a deeply flawed and unpopular President in a mid-term.
They have spoken again more recently in 4 different courtrooms in 4 different jurisdictions in 4 different states with 4 different grand juries some in red states, some in blue states, some liberal judges, some Trump appointees. They heard witnesses, they reviewed evidence and came to the same conclusion. What the people said in each case was that more likely than not, there was cause to believe the man had committed very serious crimes against them....including 91 felonies.
They will speak again soon in 4 courtrooms. Among those speaking from the witness stand or providing evidence for the prosecution will be those closest to him, virtually every senior member of his administration and responsible state executives, legislators and election officials (R's and D's) across the land providing first person or documented accounts of his betrayal of our people. They will include his VP, his Chief of Staff, his Attorney General, his Deputy Attorney General, his acting Attorney General (after the first guy resigned), his acting Deputy Attorney General(after he resigned too), his Director of National Intelligence, his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, his Director of Homeland Security, his Senior White House Counsel and his senior campaign advisors who will tell us again - and I quote - that it's "all just conspiracy **** beamed down from the mothership.” They will provide compelling evidence as to this, the single greatest betrayal of our country and it's people since Benedict Arnold. Hell, Arnold was a slacker compared to this guy....Arnold only tried to give away West Point, this imbecile tried to grab the whole enchilada
The people have already spoken clearly but they will speak again, only this time he will be compelled to listen.....he is innocent until proven guilty, the burden of proof is on the people and he has every right to a robust defense to dispute the mountains of evidence against him, but in seems clear to me, your boy is going to jail and justice will be served
There is an absence of proof that the election was stolen. 81 million people voted for a man, a career politician with no singular achievements of any note whatsoever, a congenital liar throughout his entire political career, a man who barely campaigned, Now, at helm just 30 months he certainly has made an impact. The entire course of the nation is heading due south. We are in crisis on every front you can point to. So the only question that remains is do you like the direction the nation is being pulled in? The country has apparently spoken but I can't ask everyone so I'll just ask you.
The reason Trump is in legal hot water is soley of his own doing. I voted for him, but afterwards I was appalled by his conduct as President, although I don't know why he's had a lifetime of poor and boorish behavior.
I do thnk on the political side he did some good things and the country was doing well, but he himself continued to make it all about himself in a boorish way. Sure the democrats went after him hammer and tong and I didn't like that either.
I still can't believe that the best we had to offer was a choice between he and Biden. I can't voter for either of those guys, I keep hoping that the GOP will come up with someone who not only has good ideas but also has good character and will do the office proud.
If you're asking me, I subscribe to following the Constitution and the rule of law. In that regard, the people have definitely spoken, repeatedly, many times over throughout the land and said the same thing each time. The only people to hear the testimony and review the evidence have told us they think the guy committed scores of crimes against them and our country including attempting to overturn the will of the people and overthrow of the duly elected government.
My standards are not terribly high, but insurrectionists are among those immediately disqualified. The fact that we have a guy charged by the people with 91 felonies for crimes against his country, attempted election fraud among them is the leading candidate of one of our two major parties tells one all you need to know about what a f'd up mess we have. That is TRULY 3rd world sh-tuff. Am I happy with the direction the nation is being pulled? Absolutely not and Biden needs to bear his share of the blame, but let's not suggest that the alleged insurrectionist and his betrayal of the people has not played a role in where we stand as a nation. I'm with TOK, I'll not vote for either of those guys
Out of curiosity, which indictment includes election fraud?
Anyone remember all the efforts Gore made to overturn the 2000 election? Probably not. He asked for a recount but only in specific counties. He was "looking for votes" just like someone else was. But as the chief judge in NY once said you could get a grand jury "to indict a ham sandwich."
I'll not vote for either of them. I'm looking for a centrist with a focus on what's important because this boat is sinking fast.
Here's where I am....this captures the essence of how I feel about the disgraced ex-President. The background on Rep Anthony Gonzalez - (R) from Ohio. Star wide receiver at Ohio State, drafted in the first round by the Colts had a 5-6 year stint in the NFL until injuries ended his career. Went to Stanford business school and got an MBA and decided to try his hand in politics. It's 6 minutes, it's a worthwhile watch and provides great insights into how a bright, principled young Republican congressman felt about his President surrounding those tumultuous days and his views on his worthiness for office. If you want to cut right to the guts of his views, go to the 4:30 mark in the vid, I can't say it better. Gonzalez is not the kind of guy we want running away from public service because his leadership failed him and his party was blinded by lies and turned their backs on those standing up for truth....
Read the Georgia indictment, from forgery to false statements to conspiracy to commit election fraud, it's filled with it. I do remember Gore, I do remember his efforts to challenge the election results with recounts and in the courts as he is entitled. I also remember that after the recounts had been completed and the courts had ruled, I remember this speech:
"GORE: Good evening.
Just moments ago, I spoke with George W. Bush and congratulated him on becoming the 43rd president of the United States — and I promised him that I wouldn’t call him back this time.
I offered to meet with him as soon as possible so that we can start to heal the divisions of the campaign and the contest through which we just passed."
I also remember him presiding over the electoral certification proceeding:
Congress Certified Bush Victory
Jan. 7, 2001 -- With Vice President Al Gore presiding over the ceremony, George W. Bush was declared the official winner of the tortuous 2000 presidential contest on Saturday.
“May God bless our new president and new vice president and mayGod bless the United States of America,” Gore said.
I recall Trump also calling for recounts and challenging the results in courtrooms throughout the land as he should and as he is entitled. I recall that the recounts validated the results and his challenges were dismissed by the courts - including many with Trump appointed judges presiding - as lacking evidence and being without merit in virtually every case. I do not however recall his concession speech nor his congratulations to the winner nor him presiding over a peaceful transfer of power as has been done in every presidential election for over 200 years. Gip, you're a smart guy, you know as well as I do that we can compare the two in any manner you'd like on this issue but there is no chance that Trump would not suffer terribly in comparison
I'm looking for a centrist too....simply because that's where all the people are. Fringe candidates can get nominated and sometimes elected.....they can rarely govern effectively. In my view, effective governance requires some semblance of a unifying vision, one capable of coalescing a solid majority of the people and leading a strong, unified nation. It's a rare individual that can attract a solid majority from fringe positions. I just believe that logic and human behavior dictates that you must govern from the center....that's where all the people are
From my point of view the last election was like no other in our country. The pandemic had profound impact changing the voting habits of millions of Americans. We had a campaign where one candidate tirelessly stumped in front of large enthusiastic crowd. The other hid in his basement and when he emerged he was barely coherent and couldn't have drawn flies in a garbage dump.
Americans went to bed before midnight on election day with one candidate leading and then during the night in locations withing large cities, hundreds of thousands of ballots were processed. In many critical states the margin of victory was extremely close.
Subsequent recount verified the original counts but the envelopes in which the ballots had been delivered, the ones which would validate the authenticity of the ballots had been disposed of.
As to the subsequent lawsuits, one in particular stood out to me because it reached the Supreme Court. The challenge was to the Pennsylvania results since they were cast by unconstitutional rules. The rules regarding mail balloting had been instituted by the state attorney general rather than the state legislature. Article 1 sec. 4 states "The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators" In my opinion the claims in the suit were meritorious.
Despite what you may believe, the suit was not decided on lacking evidence or being without merit. The suit was decided on lack of standing which is a procedural ground and not on the merits. The case had been brought by the state of Texas. I personally believe that SCOTUS didn't want to decide the case on the merits because if they found for Texas they would have created complete chaos since the only remedy would have been to overturn the election. The constant threat by Dems to pack the court with additional justices might have been in the back of their minds. In any event, they took the easy way out.
If there is evidence that the former president violated criminal laws he should be punished. At the same time it certainly is a coincidence that all of these indictments have come within months of each other, in different jurisdictions all in the beginning of the presidential campaign. If you're looking for conspiracies, you might want to try this coordinated attack on a political opponent. If the purpose is to obtain justice, that's one thing, if it's to preoccupy, slander, and cause the expenditure of millions on defense attorney costs, that's another. We've already seen a similar ploy used with the Russian collusion claim that 1. questioned the legitimacy of the Trump election win, 2. impacted the 2018 midterm elections, and 3. greatly hampered members of the Trump administration who were producing documents and testifying about matters instead of doing their jobs. But millions of Americans believed the whole hoax because they were either gullible or wanted to.
I hear ya Gip, I'm always tickled when I hear talk of the Texas case. What amuses me is when I consider what would have been the response from my good friends in Texas and the Texas legislature if some liberal state in the NE had opined to the Texans as to how they didn't like how Texas had run their elections. You picked one state, one case, let's not forget that there were over 50 cases filed and in the vast majority of cases the court held that there was no evidence and the cases lacked merit and in some, his lawyers have been sanctioned or lost their license for filing false claims or frivolous lawsuits. He lost....he knew he lost and his actions subsequent to that was to cross a line that should never be crossed. Yet cross it he did and defiled our Constitution, betrayed his country and her people and for that, he needs to be held to account.
His own guys, the guys on his staff and in his administration he handpicked with the responsibility to tell him if he lost, if fact told him....you lost. His Attorney General told him that there no evidence of substantial fraud, that the allegations he was spewing were "bull$h!t". His VP told him he lost, his Senior White House Counsel told him he lost, his Director of National Intelligence told him there was no evidence of interference, his Department of Homeland Security (CISA) told him “The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history" and "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised." His senior campaign advisor told him he lost and another told his staff it was all "conspiracy sh!t beamed down from the mothership."
Consider that decision set, for a moment, if you will. If all of the states, all the courts and the entirety of your own staff in those positions you authorized responsible to know tell you that you lost....and only the "pillow guy" is telling you didn't....wtf, who follows the "pillow guy"??? Yet that's precisely what he did. Clearly he knew, any rational person would have or, at minimum, had a duty to know yet he chose the path of the unthinkable making him either a criminal or stupid, irrational and incompetent or both. My guess is the latter.
I've read the indictments and my guess is this....had Michael J. Malloy been on those grand juries and heard the testimony and seen the evidence presented, he too would have voted in favor of the indictment. The evidence as contained in the indictments is overwhelming and compelling in volume, source and substance and yet represents only the tip of the iceberg. Timing of the indictments aside, at the end of the day, it's only the evidence that matters and those that commit crimes against the people need to be held to account and if the defense can't make a dent in the evidence or the arguments and it holds up in court, he's likely going to jail.
It must be conceded, especially after watching this train wreck we are in at present that it is hard to rationalize how Joe Biden attracted 81 million votes, the most in the nation's history. Especially when you recognize that Trump garnered over 74 million votes, the SECOND most in the nation's history. Joe Biden got 12 and 14 million more votes than his idol, Barack Obama got in his successful campaigns He got 34 million more votes than Bill Clinton and he was the first "Black" president. People are confused as to how a simpleton with no singular achievements and obviously impaired could be that popular. Especially in light of the general robust health of the economy under Trump and our lack of military conflicts. There did not seem to be groundswell movement to replace him. Then there was election night itself. What a chain reaction of improbable events that night; states suspending counts until the next day, machines malfunctioning, pipes bursting in the main count area in Fulton county and on and on. It took days, weeks to get final counts with the latest technologies in place. Pennsylvania shut down late in the evening with Trump ahead as I recall, within range of closing Biden out. Same with Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina even Georgia. Got up to go to work the next morning and he had lost or was losing every one of them. And the mail in ballots jumped from 21% in 2016 to 46% in 2020 ( covid played a role in that to some degree ).
So while nothing untoward has been proven it is easy to understand the skepticism. Particularly in light of the resulting carnage on all fronts.
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