Tinder box

Discussion in 'The Back Room' started by WSU1996kesley, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    If you would reread my last post, you would see that I answered your first question. Openly carrying arms at the state capitol during a political demonstration, although legal in Michigan, strikes me as taking another step to anarchy since brandishing a weapon in those circumstances conveys an implicit threat one will use bullets rather than the democratic process to prevail in a political dispute. That was my same opinion after the first predominantly white protest in Lansing. On the other hand, I have no problem those who, while protecting their property and livelihood during a riot, openly carried a weapon to deter looters and thieves.

    Question for you: in multiple posts, you strongly supported the Covid restrictions that shut down much of the nation’s commerce and public interaction for three months and sarcastically criticized those who did not follow social-distancing guidelines as Trump sycophants and knuckle-dragging dupes who were ignoring basic science and posing a mortal danger to others. Perhaps I missed them, but I have not seen any comments made by you that the Covid pandemic might become markedly worse because of the nationwide protests which many observers agree have not adhered to CDC guidelines to contain the virus, at least with regard to social distancing and size of public crowds. Do you believe that the Covid regulations and guidelines can be disregarded if they are being violated by those who are engaged in activities that advance socially laudable goals?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  2. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Bobda I have been aghast at the sight of all of the protesters crowded in with each other with so many not wearing masks and not practicing social distancing. It's almost a given that these past 8 days of protests will set off spikes in Covid 19 cases around the country.
    Florida has already seen two very high numbers of positives two days in a row and you can bet protests driven cases will be showing up in places in many states.
     
  3. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate your response. I wish the opinions of public health experts about the need to follow CDC recommendations in all circumstances were as consistent as yours but that does not seem to be the case

    Suddenly, Public Health Officials Say Social Justice Matters More Than Social Distance

    People who were barred from visiting a dying parent or sibling are now watching experts giving their approval to mass violations because the violations are done to achieve a goal the experts politically support. If they do not realize that their compliance contortions are causing a further erosion of the trust the public held for their opinions, they are ******* fools.
     
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  4. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Politico finding a few in the medical field with these opinions does not represent national medical opinion. Ben Carson, Fauci, Birx..... you're not going to hear the same come from them.
    Redfield of the CDC was just on GMA with a warning about these very concerns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  5. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    What is the end game in all of this protest and looting? When will it stop, what can anybody do to make it stop?
     
  6. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Here's my favorite take on it
     
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  7. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    02C3F082-B7FA-45FB-9453-137E77D99352.jpeg
     
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  8. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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  9. WSU1996kesley

    WSU1996kesley Well-Known Member

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    Full autopsy report from the independent medical examiner is here:
    https://dam.tmz.com/document/65/o/2020/06/01/657b9939bb4e46cea274d10f81c662cc.pdf

    Although "Manner of death: Homicide" is factually true, the Comments specifically address the reason for this: statistics. The media continues to abrogate their responsibility of providing a full story to allow reasoned interpretation of the information available. Instead, they continue fanning the flames all the while aghast that the world is on fire.

    Under "Other significant conditions" fentanyl intoxication is listed (as well as meth).

    In the end, the judicial system will determine guilt as a result of the criminal charges. My guess is that he will not be convicted of murder due to the intoxicants in his system. And with the continued instigation of the media, this will not end peacefully, either, as it will reinforce the perception of "institutionally systemic racism" regardless of any facts that become available. One note is that fentanyl-laced drugs kill tens of thousands of people every year, usually without knowing they have taken a fentanyl-laced drug. Most of the fentanyl in the US comes from China, from whom suppliers that the Communist leadership has not shut down after years of pressure from the US.

    He may end up with manslaughter or negligent, but intent is going to be impossible to prove conclusively. This also doesn't remove the possibility (and likelihood) of civil charges. There is also additional footage that is missing and may become available. The video that has been released shows very damning actions of all officers. However, there is almost guaranteed additional exculpatory video somewhere that puts these actions in context, good or bad. The parts of the context that don't support into each individual's perception of reality will have no bearing on their viewpoint. So the tinderbox here is fully stocked, and we again are going to be bringing a blowtorch to it.

    One additional group that I forgot to add above is ANTIFA. I could be convinced that demonstrations were originally planned to be peaceful. Bad actors with anarchic intentions further stoked/spoiled those intentions, the most likely culprit being ANTIFA. Additional possible are foreign agents (China, Russia, though possible and aligning with geopolitical goals by weakening America's world reputation on human rights is a discussion that is not going to be possible across the aisle due to the complete lack of willingness to openly see other possibilities that don't align with their chosen/given world view) and White Supremacists (included here because I read this theory from CNN, but this action doesn't align with anything they are known for).
     
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  10. WSU1996kesley

    WSU1996kesley Well-Known Member

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    Candace is one of the best, thoughtful, independent voices out there today. I have enjoyed much of her content.

    Unfortunately, the current political climate does not celebrate independent, thoughtful, reasoned responses and I fully expect her to receive an elevated amount of hate from individuals who have a world view in conflict with her thoughts.

    The quality of person George Floyd was has absolutely no bearing on the requirement of accountability for the police in their actions. One can be horrified, which is universally true, by the images on the video and still denounce the life which lead the criminal to that crossroads. It is a tragedy all the way around, and this includes the violent riots that have destroyed many lives of the innocent in those areas.
     
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  11. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Here's an interesting blog post by a young blackman who was part of a program to get black kids out of inner city schools in Boston to the 'burbs. He was very successful, and became everybody's Token Black Friend.

    His story about the journey and how he felt like he'd escaped the typical black mans problems, he was a privileged black. He was a different. But recent events have been sobering to him as they could have been him.

     
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  12. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    Thoughtful and well written article. Thanks for posting this, Terry.
     
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  13. WSU1996kesley

    WSU1996kesley Well-Known Member

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    That is a great article from someone who obviously cares deeply about the topic and wants to positively add to the discussion. I appreciate his willingness to share his experiences and viewpoints and wish more honest, open dialogue like this were possible without demonizing, dehumanizing, and hating anyone with a different opinion/viewpoint or 40% of the country's population because their morality and personal experiences more closely aligns with those ideals. Divisiveness, shock, and outrage drives clicks, and is a prime basis of the business model behind the mainstream media. Identity politics drives divisiveness and exclusion of anyone that will not buy into their definitions and hallucinations; exclusive selections of identity inherently excludes, in direct opposition to the advertised tenets of being inclusive.

    I will point out that bias is inherent in the human condition and if you have a normally functioning brain, you are inherently biased. Biases as relates to skin color, education level, level of class, manners, beliefs, religion, age, sex, you name it humans develop biases to it. Many of the systems put in place are designed to try to minimize the impacts of those inherent biases. Recognize that part of the goal of society is to consciously over-ride that inherent human brain pattern, and to a large extent, most people make huge effort to do so on a daily basis. In fact, reading through the post, there are biases and assumptions that, from a different upbringing, such as growing up very poor, some of the experiences weren't that much different even for a white kid. And the joke about being the only black in a group of whites "how do you fit in here"? I've had that exact same joke told to me by a cop being the only white guy in a car full of blacks when traveling between parties late one night (or early morning as the case may have been).

    Yes, biases exist, and they will always exist, and I appreciate the open discussion this guy brings to the table. However, I'm not sure we are adult enough in society yet to even admit this basic failing in human nature and that EVERYONE has this same failing. Unless you have a non-functioning human brain. In that case, you MIGHT have no bias.
     
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