Yup.. playing at Southern Miss.. There's a lot of hype and hoopla in college football. There are a lot of people who make too much money serving as fake experts or evaluators of talent. Tebow has been anointed the 2nd coming since he was in HS. Like I said... if St T went to those type of schools... would he be making history, or would he be Jake Locker?
Point well made Corey.....no question he is a fine kid and has had a great college career, but all this "greatest" stuff is silly and imho is more National Enquirer type stuff than anything.....which frankly is what the writer is looking for anyway.....just my opinion.
T, My point exactly. I love watching Tebow play. There's a few guys out there that make Saturday's fun and he is certainly one of them. I just think this 'greatest' stuff can't possibly be quantified.
Well then we have to take that great label off of any college star until the go to a less than well known school and prove they can do it there I guess. Only real AA's are the guys from CUSA, WAC, Big South. Tebow was a hyped football player as a high schooler because he was better than the rest. Same for Matt Barkley, he was hyped, if he has a great career at USC do we discount it because well he had 5* WR's to throw to and 5* OL's to block and 7 HS AA TB's to hand it off to... I mean I love the underdog makes good story, or the diamond in the rough story as much as the next guy. But it doesn't do anything to tarnish what Tebow has accomplished. I'm not into any player being the greatest, but Tim Tebow is one of the greatest players of his generation. Others are in that category but as Bum said it doesn't take long to call the roll. Terry
....not at all. TT is without question a great college football player. Corey and I have not stated anything to the contrary. We are just suggesting the real "value" of the whole "GREATEST" discussion is to sell stories and stir debate and enable meaningful chest-thumping on the one hand and hearty guffaws on the other.....who knows what Favre, et al would have done with excellent coaching, a system perfectly suited to his style and scores of blue-chippers surrounding him....my guess is that they would have been pretty good! Is TT a better player than Favre et al when considering the additional benefits provided him, I don't think so, but who the hell knows? I think that is the point....I could be wrong, but I don't think so.....
No matter the level of skill that surrounds a player like Tebow with the hype that surrounds him and the level of expectations he still has to walk the walk and do more than talk the talk.....he has to deliver. He could have folded up after a lackluster first half vs. OU ( many have before him....Vinny? ) but Tebow came back in the second half with a vengeance and won himself and his team a National Championship. He had the guts and heart to overcome the adversity for some very high stakes. I maintain that feat is not always easy no matter the talent on hand.
If John Brantley and every qB that follows Tebow puts up the same numbers that TT has done then I'll agree that it was the system, the talent that surrounds him, etc. Sort of like Texas Tech QB's. They put up such gaudy numbers but when every freakin QB at Tech exceeds the previous guys guady numbers you have to think...hmmmm maybe just about any QB with an arm can do this and you don't have to be "special" just have a durable arm that doesn't poop out after 50 throws. Tebow plays that position like nobody else has ever played it, except Joe Kapp. That to me is what makes him different. There have been a jillion college QB's going all the way back to Ty Detmer and Andre Ware who threw for a zillioin yards in flag football offenses, but Tebow is a throw back he could have played for that dude who invented the Single Wing. Terry
......what we have here is a failure to communicate. :lol: :lol: So, TOK, is your position that TT is the greatest ever? I'm uncertain where you're at...... Nobody is disputing that he is one of the great college players of his time.....
I stated early on that I don't go for the "Greatest Ever" moniker. But I do think TT is <b>ONE</b> of the greatest players of his generation. No matter how you measure it, leadership, scholarship, citizenship, championships, stats...he's done it all. Unless of course you don't think any of that is valid unless done at Idaho. BTW: I'm personally hoping a hangnail or ingrown toenail will besiege him all season long and give John Brantley a chance at QB! :wink: :wink:
.....it appears as if we are in agreement. ......it also appears as if you are the only one making such claims!? :wink:
Like I said earlier greatest ever usually means to most people someone who has played in their lifetime without a lot of comprehension as to what players did before that. What I will say though that I have loved watching Tebow and before him Wuereffel. If I had to choose between the two I would take Tebow. Like Terry said he just does it different than other players these days. I'm going to watch him this year and enjoy the end of his era at Florida. Next year I'll root for Brantley who may have more potential as a NFL QB than Tebow. He may match or exceed his passing numbers. But he will not match or exceed his rushing numbers. Is Tebow better than Red Grange, George Gipp, Jim Brown, Jim Thorpe or a long list of others? Who knows and frankly who cares. I'm just going to enjoy him here and now and thank him for being a Gator.
Well said Bill. I am looking forward to sitting back and watching him play one more year. I have plans to see the Tenn, Arkansas, Georgia and FSU games. Should be a fun year.
My tentative plans are the same four games and Vandy. The Vandy game allows my wife to stay a week with our daughter in Jacksonville.
Terry, See all of T's comments as they are spot on. My beef is with this 'greatest ever' bullcrap, which is EXACTLY what the article was all about. You can bring up the 5* and high profile teams if you want, but ya know what.. there's plenty of guys who did that and wound up with a more impressive win loss record. His freshman season, he was the short yardage QB. People seem to forget that Chris Leak was actually the starting QB his freshman year in which they won the NC. Tebow played plenty, but he was the short yardage gimmick. His sophomore season, his team lost 4 games. (Auburn, LSU, Georgia and Michigan). Last year they lost to Ole Miss. The point isn't to knock the kid. I think he's great. Nor do I mean to tarnish his legacy. My contention is that people are literally crapping all over the accomplishments (some that may be considered better than Tebow's depending on what stats you value) of other players in previous generations. It's just a by-product of the ESPN hype machine and it has been out of control for some time now. People point to the numbers and 2 NCs in 3 years with a Heisman.. well, I don't even have to go back a decade to find someone with better numbers..depending on what you value as important. One guy who isn't even mentioned in this debate is USC's Matt Leinart. He was USC's starting QB in 2003, 2004, and 2005. -Leinart was 37-2 as the starting QB for USC in those 3 years. Tebow is 22-5 as a starting QB right now. (remember, Chris Leak started his freshman year not Tebow) -Leinart led USC to National Titles in 2003 and 2004 before losing a chance at a repeat in 2005 in the legendary Vince Young game. If you're counting, that is 3 straight NC game appearances and he won 2 of them Tebow (at best) shared duties for their NC team his freshman year. They lost 4 games his sophomore year. Last year he was instrumental, right down to his tearful apology for losing to Ole Miss, in the Gators winning the NC. -Leinart won a Heisman and was a finalist for the other and finished 6th his sophomore year. -Leinart lost 2 games in his college career. The first loss was a 3 OT classic at Cal and the other was the Vince Young game in which I defy anyone of you (esp you Terry) to show me a game in which a player played any better in a game than Young did that day. Point being... Neither of those 2 losses in 3 years were due to Leinart tanking. Is Leinart a better QB than Tebow? Probably not..but then again I believe that USC has had a better team than Florida. There was no 4 loss seasons. No games in which the loss can be squarely laid (or at least partially) at his feet. The same cannot be said for Tebow. There's great players everywhere... Enjoy the ride. These kids are fun.
Matt was a great college QB, no doubt. Buttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt..... He played on an incredibly talented team for his 3 years as a starter. They didn't really miss a beat when what's his name took over at QB. So was the guy who was before him, Carson Palmer. How good would Matt Leinart be if he'd played at Idaho!! :twisted: :twisted: But I agree with you that when ESPN gets behind you then all sense of reality is lost.
Well said Bill... I would just like to remind everyone, once again, that what started this whole thread about an article by Mandel claiming that Tebow was poised to take his place as the greatest player of all-time.
So Terry, What you're saying is that USC was better than Florida? Read and listen to the Gator folks.. They think that they're still NC material without Tebow.
Well if my dream comes true and Tebow is beset with hangnail and ingrown toenails all season (wouldn't wish real injuries on the lad), and John Brantley gets to play a lot and they still win the NC then the Gator fans are right. Or next year if they are awesome with Brantley as the starter then they are right again. But really the Gators have recruited incredibly well and are loaded and deep everywhere just like USC so I don't see Tebow graduating as a loss that will suddenly make them 9-3/8-4 team. If losing Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart didn't do that to USC then losing Tebow won't do it to the Gators. Plus like Pete Carrol, Meyer is a great coach who knows how to build a winner and keep it going. I don't think we'll see a Gator team that loses more than a 1 or 2 games a year as long as Meyer is the coach.