Thought provoking. Move over Beck, you have company.

Discussion in 'The Back Room' started by George Krebs, Jun 23, 2010.

  1. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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  2. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Sowell is a sharp guy and unfortunately I have to agree with him.

    Hopefully in November we can slow the Obama steamroller.
     
  3. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    So.....here we go again with that little thing called trust.

    I gather the author of the article feels it is much more important to preserve the constitutional right of British Petroleum to keep all of their money if they and their stock holders so choose while millions of innocent Americans who just happen to be born in the Gulf region see their lives torn asunder by BP's willful carelessness and greed.

    Somehow I have a problem with that.
     
  4. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    So it doesn't bother you if the law is broken, as long as it suits your purposes....

    OK
     
  5. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    This guy Sowell is way off base. I am not a fan of Obama for many of the same reasons talked about here by my conservative friends. I'm deeply concerned about what he's done to our country's financial stability and about his generally socialist attitude. But to excoriate him over the $20 billion BP pledge is grabbing at straws. Whatever means he used to "extract" the pledge is justified in light of the unimaginable devastation caused by the spill, whether it be "old style" Chicago politics or the threat of interminable suspension of gulf drilling. IMO, the president is required to do whatever is necessary to soften the blow to the citizens of this country, specifically the citizens, businesses, and the way of life affected by the spill. Hurricane Katrina was a natural disaster. This one is man-made, and there is no question about who is the guilty party. They must make it right. The president made that clear and in the process brought some small comfort to those devastated by the spill. Good for him.

    To even imply, much less state outright, that this is a step toward tyranny, to the point of comparing Obama to Hitler, is just plain stupid and smacks of the deepest kind of right wing bias. As dangerous as he may be in terms of his long-term impact on our capitalistic economy and his attempt to create a bloated government, he is an elected official, capable only of a maximum of 8 years of leadership. The history of our country is full of examples of right-to-left and left-to-right swings, all brought on by an electorate displeased with the current situation and intent on changing it at the polls. Even though we can't vote him out of office this year, we can vote to reduce his momentum and effectiveness by changing the make-up of Congress. Our check and balance system of government has been pretty darned effective over the past 230+ years.

    Our democratic system provides a wall against the potential for tyranny via the ballot box. To give credibility to this author's ideologically biased assertions is to play into his form of ill-conceived logic.
     
  6. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Sid, I don't think Sowell implied that Obama is like Hitler.

    He did point out a tactic that Hitler used that others have used also and he has a deep concern as to where this country is headed.

    You are right about the ballot box and I sincerely hope we start making those changes in November.
     
  7. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Great post Sid.......thanks for the clarity.

    I guess either A) some people couldn't care less what happens to those in the Gulf region who are so negatively impacted by this spill or B) they just trust implicitly that BP intends on "doing the right thing" even if they have shown no such ability to do so in the past.
     
  8. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Sid's post was indeed a good one MCG. Your last one wasn't.

    However the thrust of the article was that this is a nation of laws and taking shortcuts can be dangerous.

    I won't compare this administration to Hitler as not many people in history as been as evil as Hitler. However understanding the tactics he took is a different matter.

    And like Sid I think this is a great country and we have the ability to remove politicians who we think are not doing things right. That seems to be going on right now and all indications are that in November Obama will lose his large majority in congress.

    Here's an article about the drilling moratorium that was lifted by a federal judge. Seems Salazar just added some wording to the report on his own.

    If playing fast and loose with our system like this is ok with you I'm not surprised. However I don't think most of us agree with that approach.

    Where Are Consequences For Salazar Lie?
     
  9. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    Much like Obama himself and little or no experience to recommend him for his post, he has surrounded himself with appointees and czars who have no knowledge of their tasks whatsoever. For example, the head of the CIA has zero experience in the intelligence committee.

    He hired by ideology, not by merit.
     
  10. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    Dave's compliment made me nervous. :wink:
     
  11. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Opinions are like....well we all know that one.

    In any event what do you think BP would do if they had no pressure from our government to make this right for the people damaged by this?

    I suspect BP would point to the 75 million dollar limit for liability as the law states and after all adhering to the letter of the law is what you are proposing we follow.

    If you think BP would do differently and step to the plate and spend the billions that will be necessary what are the reasons you feel that way?
     
  12. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    MCG, your last comment doesn't have a lot of bearing on my comment about your previous post.

    Your choices a or b was silly and makes a black and white issue, at least in your mind, out of what is a much more complicated issue.

    Sid on the other hand disagreed with a logical post that I can agree with. He may not be on the same page about Sowell but we are pretty much on the same page that we can control the situation by voting out those that displease the voters.

    Stay tuned this November.
     
  13. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see your honest answer Bill about what you think BP would do and how much more than the 75 million cap in relief funds would they spend on this disaster if they weren't coerced into spending much, much more. Seems like winning.....or losing......in November is all you guys can think about.

    It's like a broken record.
     
  14. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    We have a civil judicial system in this country that has been established to compensate those injured by others. We have three branches of our government the executive, legislative and judicial one. Once again we see the executive branch taking over the function of the judicial system. Our system of checks and balances is being systematicly destroyed by the current administration. Ask the bond holders of GM. Ask the institutions who used to administer student loans.
    The same people who whined about the Constitution being ignored by Bush's Patriot Act have no problem with what's not going on. So fighting oil companies is somehow more "legal" than fighting foreign terrorists?
    This administration is trying to give more protection to illegal aliens than domestic corporations.
     
  15. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    How long do you think that litigation might take Gipper when in the interim families were losing their homes and businesses?

    After all.....BP has their own very capable lawyers that would vehemently fight any awards of remuneration don't you think?

    Please clue me in or refresh me on the actions of the current administration that negatively affected GM bond holders.
     
  16. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Dave, folks are injured in auto crashes, industrial accidents, medical mishaps etc. every day. Their ability to work and support or nurture their families is limited or destroyed yet they never get presidential intrusion into their claims. The biggest reason besides the obvious constitutional one is the fact that the administration could not get any political advantage from so doing.
    After Katrina we saw mass government waste as temporary housing went unused and thousands filed bogus claims for federal handouts. That's because those claims were adjusted by folks who have little or no regard for taxpayer money and we'll see the same lack of concern for a government bureaucracy that will be handing out someone else's money.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-02-12-katrina-fraud_x.htm
    Suppose that the claimant doesn't feel that the offer the government makes is adequate? (my guess is that most will get less than they feel that they deserve) What's theie remedy? Well they could file suit. But then they're back in the same line that they would have been in any event.
    Who is going to pay for the cost of the government bureaucracy that is adjusting these claims? Either you and I will be paying the cost or the cost will be taken from the BP money that should be paying claims. In any event, BP has just handed that costly job to Obama and washed their hands of it.
    So you think that BP will be paying lawyers tens of thousands of dollars to prevent a family from collecting 20 grand? OK if that makes sense to you so be it.
    Oh and as to the GM bond holders "refresh" assumes that you once knew the story. Here's a Forbes article on how they were handled.
    http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/09/gm-auto-industry-personal-finance-guru-insight-obama-bankruptcy.html
     
  17. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    MCG, I have no idea what BP would have done and neither do you.

    Broken record, wow I wonder how you look at your posts?

    Watch come November.
     
  18. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    By reading this article it sure sounds like our lovable administration falls into category A.

    Avertible catastrophe
     
  19. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Gipper,

    I don't believe that BP would just hand out thousands of dollars to millions of people totaling billions of dollars without a fight if left alone to do it themselves.

    Now $20,000 to a few people totaling a couple of million might happen but not the billions....possibly 20 billion that it is going to take.

    That's my humble opinion anyhow.

    On the GM article one thing I gathered is that the forced bankruptcy and the strongarming of the bond holders is what the author had a beef about but then he says this......"seeing a bankruptcy filing as the most likely route to pursue in order to restructure GM. As a matter of fact, it probably would be the best route"....

    The article was written 15 months ago....not even three months after Obama took office and before the bankruptcy filing and re-emergence of the new GM. A lot of his content was speculation of what might happen and I wonder how it turned out to this author. One thing I remember being discussed as distinct possibility of GM and Chrysler was liquidation.

    That wouldn't have benefited anyone in an already devastated auto belt.

    But hey....for all I know you are a bankruptcy lawyer whose already booming local area business might have jumped through the roof with a GM Chapter 7 filing.
     
  20. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Your belief in fiction is boundless.