The Second Amendment

Discussion in 'The Back Room' started by JO'Co, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Terry,

    Simple question: Why, in your opinion, did the founding fathers add the second amendment?
     
  2. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Simply stated, to guarantee the rights of the people to have their views heard and represented faithfully in the governance of their country.

    Why, in your opinion, when the people are stating their views loud and clear - as in the case of more effective gun control - should the elected representatives not take action on their behalf?

    Why in your opinion is that some liberal conspiracy to "disarm" America, "herd" them onto a train and take them to "Auschwitz"?

    No conspiracy Tom...it's just effective governance that the people are seeking exactly as the Founding Fathers intended......
     
  3. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    So, what you have is an inordinate amount of vocal people wanting gun rights at least reduced. The voice of the gun owners has long been the NRA and now NAGR. However, when those groups speak up, you discount them as radical groups.

    We have to be careful of what freedoms we allow to slip away. Do you really believe that in 1962, the Christian population of the United States was a minority? Regardless, the supreme court, with the help of atheist Madalyn Murray O’Hair, had prayer in schools removed.

    The people voicing the opinion that gun control should be stiffened are not in the majority just like the majority didn't speak up back then.

    The government is forcing regulations against the religious beliefs of Catholics now. It is time that we draw a line in the sand and stop this regime that lives to crumble the constitution.
     
  4. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Tom, we are all entitled to our own opinion, but not our own facts.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/Guns.aspx

    The Gallup data is clear. When polled, a majority of people favor stricter gun laws, an overwhelming 92% favor universal background checks and almost 2/3 want to ban high-capacity mags.

    These results have been very consistent across many, many different survey vehicles......the people are speaking very clearly. Elected officials and lawmakers would be foolish to ignore them.
     
  5. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Terry,

    Do you think that the houses that have a gun, any gun, is in the minority. I don't so to me, this appears to be a selective poll.

    This Gallop pole polled houses of which up to 66% did not own guns. Of course people that do not own guns have a natural fear of the unknown that would prejudice them against guns. Do you think that people that have never raised children should be able to legislate how you raise your children?
     
  6. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Tom, yes, I would have guessed that less than 50% of households own guns. Gallup is one of the premier survey organizations in the country and has been for a generation or more. It does not appear selective to me at all....it appears to be a broad-based sample scientifically designed to assess public opinion across the country.....even the NRA has stated the number of US households owning guns is "almost half".
     
  7. wzt

    wzt New Member

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    Number of deaths in a year caused by:

    Guns - 31,347
    -of that, suicide caused 18,735 deaths, homicide caused 11,493, and the rest were accidental or undetermined.

    Abortion - 1.21 million

    I'm a long way from believing they just want to protect the children.







    2009 numbers (sorry couldn't find a more recent accurate abortion tally)
     
  8. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    This is how uninformed the general population is. FFL holders (a.k.a gun dealers) have their backgrounds checked annually and are subject to unannounced searches by the local sheriff and more stringent background checks than the general population.

    The liberal media has people thinking that gun shows are a free for all anything goes circus. There may be a few guns sold person to person but a very small percentage. The gun dealers (vast majority of guns sold in gun shows are through dealers) have to show evidence via ATF forms that they did background checks or the gun was sold to another legal license. In my case, I have a CHL where my background is checked every 5 years and my license can be used to bypass the background check at the point of sale. I still have to fill out the ATF paperwork but they don't have to call it in.
     
  9. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    WZT, That's my point. There are other more deadly issues to innocent children. Some, not all, are more easily attacked than the legal gun carrying citizens.

    When they don't go after the breached levy and are striving diligently to patch the hole in my leaking coffee cup to keep the innocent dry, I just have to ask: "WHY???"
     
  10. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Simple......because that is what the people want. Of the people, by the people, for the people......
     
  11. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I want to drive my SRT8 at 150mph on the toll way. If I get enough people to say they want it, it still doesn't make sense to do it.
     
  12. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    I sure bet you could get the speed limits raised tho.....
     
  13. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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  14. RECcane

    RECcane Well-Known Member

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    I could not agree more....If I loaded up my bird dog in the back of my truck and drove to Ft. Myers I would be stopped quickly and given a ticket for the endangerment of my pooch. I may even make the local news cast for this drastic act. Now if I carried my pregnant girlfriend to the abortion clinic this is applauded by the same people who are busy giving testimonies on the danger of gun ownership.

    Yes, this is off topic from the gun argument but it conveys the hypocrisy that Tom is testifying to. Terry I respect your feelings in this and must testify that you have been patient and respectful in your heart felt thoughts on this topic. Once again I am reminded of the maturity and ability my friends at skybox are able to share their beliefs without getting nasty to one another.

    I have realized this debate goes deeper than just gun control. It touches the core areas in what shapes our belief system.

    - Do we believe more enforcement will prevent useless deaths of innocents.

    - Do we really need hundred round clips because they are available.

    - Do we trust the government if given the chance to regulate guns more strictly has the ability to do this in a positive manner.

    - Do we actually trust government in general to do right to the people or further politicize for their own gain.

    - Does anyone truly give any poll the credence we are asked to blindly believe, For or Against what ever side we take.

    I could go on but it would serve no purpose, I have my belief system and others have theirs. I am always willing to listen and hopefully learn along the way if the dense gray matter between my ears is still in operation. For me one of the core issues is not trusting our government, its that simple, too many times the truth has oozed its way out on what was going on behind closed doors or planned by those who think they know better. If someone wants to believe that the second amendment is loved by those in office please prove it to me. No one in power wants to give it up, this has been the testimony of human nature for generations. With a well armed populace the chance of losing power is real and unnerving to any leadership. This is repeated in the words of our forefathers time and again.
     
  15. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/50kdjV000x0?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0"></iframe>
     
  16. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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  17. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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  18. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Any gun registration bill would only affect those that legally can possess firearms and there is already a precedence established in the US supreme court.
    Haynes v. United States - 390 U.S. 85 (1968)
     
  19. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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  20. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    For the masses that are against legally armed citizens owning guns:

    [​IMG]