The Heisman

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by Terry O'Keefe, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    Nguyen was a tremendous player. He finished with 517 tackles and averaged 10.7 per game. He had six INTs.

    Teo has 427 tackles ( not counting USC ) and 7 INTs. He averages 9.5 tackles per game.

    Nguyen won almost every defensive award in 1998. Teo probably will as well.

    I would argue that the spread offenses everyone runs today make it more difficult for an ILB to run up huge tackle stats but that is arguable.

    The single biggest reason that Teo has a better chance than Nguyen to win the Heisman is that he is actually on the ballot. Close behind is ND's national exposure and fan base and their attention grabbing #1 ranking.

    May the best man win.
     
  2. Scott88

    Scott88 Well-Known Member

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    Them's fightin' words!

    I'm not against a defensive guy winning.
    I'm not against Te'o. He's a great player.

    I AM for my guy... simply because I think what he's done; starting as a wide-eyed kid, and growing into a tremedous dual threat QB has been amazing.
    What chaps my butt is all the crap I'm reading about why JFF won't win for one simple reason: He's a fish.

    Like I said... if he's a junior I don't think we'd be having this discussion.

    Anyway, I'm done with this.
    Whatever happens is certainly beyond my control.
    I just want to jump to next weekend so I can know what bowl my team is going to and who we're going to run out of the stadium.
    :p

    PS - George I suspect you make a valid point, but I would note that other than OU, how many spread offenses did the Irish face this year?
     
  3. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Hey if your guy wins I'll be the first to congratulate Ag's everywhere.
    Good Luck.
     
  4. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    My prediction is just based on the way I think the voters will vote. Both those guys are great players but I believe the voters go with the offensive guy.
     
  5. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Apparently unlike many of the Heisman voters, some of us have read its mission statement. The award is to go to the outstanding college football player who "exhibits the pursuit of excellence and integrity" ( think Reggie Bush.) "Winners epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work." so the choice is between a freshman QB on a 10-2 team and a senior who chose instead of a lucrative NFL contract to return to lead a smothering defense on an undefeated season filled with personal tragedy. Tough choice. I say give it to the freshman he's had to persevere so much.
     
  6. IrishCorey

    IrishCorey Well-Known Member

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    Everybody wants their guy to win and there's nothing wrong with that. They're all good kids and they all have a case. I happen to agree with Manti. I want the crystal football. That's why the game is played.
     
  7. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    This article makes an assertive case for Manti:

    Why Manti Should Win the Heisman
     
  8. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Another to keep Scott's Blood Pressure up! ;)

    This is a ND poster on NDNation making his case for Manti.
     
  9. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Recording 100 tackles while impressive is not that remarkable. However the ND defense has been so good at limiting the number of offensive plays its opponents run (and our ball control offense shortens games) that his number of tackles IN CONTEXT is remarkable.
     
  10. Don Ballard

    Don Ballard Well-Known Member

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    Who was the last defensive player to win the Heisman? Too many variables in the equation for Manti in my opinion, but certainly a deserving individual.
     
  11. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Charles Woodson, conerback for the University of Michigan, is the only defensive player to win the Heisman Trophy. He won the award in 1997.

    However I am sure that back in the early days a number of those players also played defense, but Woodson is the only full time player to have won it.
     
  12. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    Just as a point of reference, Bob Crable had more tackles than either of these two.
     
  13. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Bill you're probably right up through the early 60's most players did both offense/defense. I don't think Woodson would have won if he did not moonlight as a kick returner and flanker though. And he was successful at doing that as well then add in UM going undefeated. Manti has the undefeated part going for him and his biggest games were against our biggest opponents.

    I expect JFF to win, he's just captured the imagination of the country in a different way than Manti and he's been spectacular on offense in most of his games.
     
  14. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Terry, I think that the Heisman committee should give two awards every year, one for offense and one for defense.

    Now I know they are just watching here and waiting for my input. :)
     
  15. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and I will be happy for Scott and the Aggies if he wins, but I'm still pulling for Manti.
    Bill, I'm sure they are and after reading your post are saying to themselves, DUH! That's a great idea! :lol:
     
  16. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Or, we could initiate the first annual Vaughters award. It could be the defensive heisman each year! :wink:
     
  17. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Defensive players can win the Outland Trophy and the Lombardi Award and those are significant awards so really I wouldn't want the Heisman committee to start giving out a defensive award. I do think that maybe it's time they refined their definition to offensive player. Although that would be controversial as well.

    Most years it's the media who gets it going that some defensive player should win the Heisman. I doubt if any defensive player starts the season talking Heisman, then the media gets the ball rolling and voila controversy.
     
  18. IrishCorey

    IrishCorey Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying this to start a fight (seriously, I'm not)

    I can't help but think that if Manti was arrested like Johnny Football was arrested, the media would never let a Heisman campaign get off the ground. Hell, we had writers talking about how ND was bending the rules and suiting up bad boys because Rees and Carlo were busted in that off-campus drinking incident... (I'll stop here before I go off on my almost annual rant about the silly alcohol police in Indiana)

    I've heard nary a word about it for JFF though.

    Don't get me wrong, he's a kid who made a mistake and crap happens at that age. He did what he had to and it is in the past. I'm just noting this gut feeling I have that if it was our guy, the media would handle it much differently.

    On another note, if JFF wins, I hope they use his Scooby Doo costume photo for his Heisman portrait. That thing is fantastic.
     
  19. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Eddie George tweeted something to the effect "Manti" for the Heisman...so I guess we know who he voted for.
     
  20. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Just for a point of reference, ND led the nation this season in the fewest rush attempts per game by an opponent. That reduces the number of chances for the MLB to make tackles. To put it into some sort of perspective, opponents rushed about 7 times less per game this season over last year. That means in a 12 game schedule they rushed 85 times less. Manti's 100+ tackles this season was certainly a more difficult task than last season. It means that the opponents were forced to throw more. The result, 7 INTs. Great stat season for Manti.