To repeat something I've said in the past when this subject comes up, as it did recently in the Manning vs. Woodson debate, there cannot be a hindsight analysis of a player's worth re: the Heisman. Grossman was an outstanding college QB and deserving of Heisman consideration in his sophomore year. Whether Crouch was a better college QB than Grossman or vice versa is immaterial. I'm sure Nebraska fans would argue the point in their guy's favor. In that particular year, Crouch was judged by the voters, right or wrong, to have played well enough to be considered and to have been invaluable enough to his team's success to have won the award. I prefer to take a "Congratulations, winner" approach as opposed to a "My guy got screwed" approach. Diff'rent strokes for different folks, I guess.
Sid You .... and others .... take a position that when one person says they think player B was more derserving of an award than player A ... that the person is saying "my guy got screwed" .... and that is not the case. My opinion is ... and was at the time ..... Grossman was more deserving of the Heisman than was Crouch. And, I believe the primary reason Crouch won .... and this may very well be the primary reason Dixon wins in 2007 was the best college player was "just" a sopohmore ... and many "feel" the Heisman cannot, should not be awarded to an underclassman. I guess ya gotta ask yourself, if Grossman had been a junior in 2001, would Crouch have still won the award?
We'll have to agree to disagree. Unlike the old days I try to pay attention to the signals that tell me when it's time to end a discussion. I can see the amber light flashing just before it turns red.
Well I understand why you Gators are behind Tebow, even with Meyer he could get injured or he could have a couple of bad games on Nat'l TV. Gotta strike while the iron is hot. But not being a Gator I won't feel bad, he'll be the front runner next year. BTW if he has the kind of year I'm sure you guys expect from him and the team has the kind of year you guys expect in 2008 would you be surprised if he doesn't go to the NFL after his Jr. year?
Don't know about Tebow going pro after his junior season. On one hand, it would make a lot of sense if the scouts think he has the "skeels" to be an NFL QB. However, he's a very unique person who really enjoys the competition. He did not redshirt so I could see him staying for his senior season. Another factor will be what Meyer sees in the development of Cam Netwon and more importantly, John Brantley. If these guys are coming on and Tebow's had a lot of success during the 2008 season, I could see Meyer advising that he move to the NFL, if they are calling Tebow as a top draft pick. And WRT his run at the Heisman, I think it's wrong to say UF fans want Tebow to win because they think he won't next year ... injury or not. I think many folks wanting Tebow to win believe he's the best player in college football.
As a sophomore in 2001 Grossman had a phenomenal year and led Florida to an Orange Bowl win in Spurrier's last season. In 2002 UF had a decent team but it was Zook's first year and there were many pitfalls and down moments and Grossman had a new staff to get used to with a whole new philosophy. His production went down as did the fortunes of the team and I think he fought through injuries as well. Carson Palmer threw for 32 TDs and 3600 yards and took the 2002 prize. By contrast Crouch led Neb to two serious ass whippings to finish the 2001 season....including 62-36 to Colorado. He ran for 18 Tds....one less than Tebow now has and he only threw for 1500 yards and 7 Tds. Tebow is going to not only surpass Crouch in rushing TDs but he will thrash Crouch's passing totals. In the 4th closest Heisman voting in history Crouch was lucky that Grossman was only a sophomore and then due to the changes at Fla Grossman never came that close again. I think Tebow will be awesome next year but you never know about injury so I say if he is the best this year then he should be the 2007 Heisman winner period.
Thanks, Gaterz. I appreciate your willingness to provide unsolicited advice, but if it's all the same to you, I'll just keep doing it my way.
Okay Sid, as long as you don't mind that I continue to point out how you could save some time and effort at the keyboard by not pounding out unecessary "sign off" posts saying you aren't going to .... well .... post. :wink:
You're right. It DOES save time....and brainpower, which for me is in short supply. But wait! I just posted to say it saves time not to post. Drat! :?
umm <r><QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> <br/> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA<br/> <br/> rinse, repeat.<br/> <br/> Stats can be twisted any way you want... They can be telling, they are not proof.<br/> <br/> EVER.<br/> <br/> and mind you...I don't care who wins the Heisman. Im just tired of talking about Florida as the NC and as soon as that goes off the table, moving onto talking Florida's POY for the Heisman.<br/> <br/> Are you claiming to be the objective one in this?</r>
Re: umm <r><QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> So, I guess that's what you were doing .... twisting .... when you were quoting NCAA run defense rankings in the above linked thread???<br/> <QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> Where is there a discussion of UF's recent football MNC? <br/> <QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> Much more so than many!!!! <E></E></r>
Hey I heard today the best reason that Tebow should win the Heisman. Superman wears Tim Tebow pajamas! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Bill, that a "insert name here" joke. I heard it last year with Brady Quinn's name. I'm sure the Oregon fans are using the same joke with Dennis Dixon's name. Things move quickly on the internet.
Well, another good day for Tebow: 25 of 34 338 yds 3 TD 1 INT 180 eff rating So, through 11 games he's posted: 198 of 289 2870 yds 26 TDs 6 INT 177 eff rating Add to this 749 yds rushing on 304 atts - 20 TDs Firts player in NCAA history to run for 20 TDs and pass for 20 TDs in a single season.
Beat Dirty Mickey and the Heisman is his. Good thing Andrews doesn't have Dockett to do his dirty deeds anymore.
I'm <t>Trying to figure out where it is rubber stamped a SOPH should not win the Heisman because he is a SOPH. What idiot rammed that through like the media is trying with the dreaded "Global Warming LOL ?"<br/> <br/> IMO Tebow deserves it off his sick season irregardless of his class. The young man is amazing.</t>
When you look at Tebow's closest competitors other than Dixon they are all juniors. What makes them more worthy at that point?