holy sh8t <r><QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> have they invented the 13 touchdown yet? they working on that down in the Gatorade labs in Florida? That TD was late in the 4th and you know it.<br/> <br/> South Carolina scored that TD to 'close' the gap to TWO TOUCHDOWNS with what?? 3 minutes left on the clock?<br/> <br/> BTW Florida took over and scored another TD. On that drive, Tebow had 16 yards rushing and a 21 yard Touchdown pass... <br/> <br/> On a possession that started with 3:52 remaining in the game....with a 13 point lead.<br/> <br/> And mind you, that isn't even the possession that was in question.. in which you lead by TWENTY points with 10 min left, and Tebow is running and passing the ball still. All numbers padded long after the game is decided.</r>
I'll have to rephrase that. As a UT fan, I've never seen a Gator I detest watching more since he is that good.
I like watching Tebow play. He's perfect for the type of offense Florida runs. The thing that would bother me if I were a Florida fan is the pounding he takes. He takes a lot of big hits.
For the record <t>I agree with Aquila and Tom, I enjoy watching the guy play. He's awesome.<br/> <br/> Is he the Heisman winner? Maybe.<br/> <br/> Its not as clear as you are painting it. Nor is there a nationwide sophomore conspiracy, nor is there anyone calling him a FB who can't throw.<br/> <br/> I will agree with PJ... He's going to get hurt..<br/> <br/> And if Florida really is the horsesh*t half-arsed, one man show that MCG and Gaterz are painting them out to be... I sure would want him out of the game with a 20 point lead and 10 min remaining in the 4th.</t>
Have you really seen Florida play defense this season? You would completely understand Tebow staying in the game if you had. :roll: :lol:
LMAO .... some of this is just too damn funny .......... :lol: Corey, I gotta be honest here, I really do not understand what you are trying to communicate via this statement: I haven't made one negative comment about Dixon, simply enumerated the facts of Tebow's performance, accompishments this season. Dixon may very well win The Heisman with what he's accomplished and that would be okay. AFA Dixon having played one less game ......... well yah, that's why I gave references to per game statistics. And, the fact Dixon has accomplished what he has while playing in "a better offense" ...... probably means Tebow's "accomplished more in a lesser offense". Hmmmm. 8)
my point is <t>you are putting up disingenuous stats as if they are even a valid comparison of the two players.<br/> <br/> you are clearly trying to compare one vs the other in an attempt to show that Tebow should be the Heisman winner. Or did you feel compelled to throw some random numbers out there just for the hell of it?<br/> <br/> Reading your guys posts about Tebow, Florida is nothing more than a one man show. Is that what you are telling me? You don't have WRs, you dont have TBs, you have a marginal line and no defense.<br/> <br/> Then tell me swami, just how impressive is LSU's big wins in the SEC?<br/> <br/> You two want to talk about the stats you throw out as 'facts' while you skirt the numbers I throw out there.<br/> <br/> And to answer your question, I have seen Florida play (either live or replay-sometimes both):<br/> <br/> Troy, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU, Kentucky, Georgia, Vandy and SCAR. The only game I have not seen is Western Kentucky.<br/> <br/> Just how many times have you seen Oregon play this year?<br/> <br/> Myself, I think these are all great players. I really don't see a clear winner. I am a bit curious as to the way Florida is using Tebow, especially late in the games. You're one big hit, or a twisted knee away from being a bad football team... if I am reading your posts correctly.<br/> <br/> And perhaps Dixon's offense is better because of Dixon? How can you quantify either of those wild claims you are making? You can't.</t>
Obviously a Qb needs receivers to be an effective passer and I am sure Dixon and Tebow both have capable receivers. I don't know who amongst us is qualified to go down each roster spot and decide which of the Qbs has more support......Tebow or Dixon. It is probable that Dixon has a better defense trying to get the ball back for him though and I bet the TOP favors Oregon over Florida.
It ain't over there is still some football to play before the end of the regular season. Who knows what will happen. Dennis Dixon is having a great year and if he finishes strong he'll be a deserving winner. Not saying nobody else is in the conversation but he'll be a deserving winner. Of course he could crap out and things will be turned upside down and somebody like Tebow could win it.
LOL .... What the hell is a "disingenuous stat"?????????? They are the stats maintained by the NCAA and represent the only basis for an objective comparison. The rest is just biased, subjective rhetoric. Corey, I've already clearly stated that Dixon may win ... and that's okay. I think he's accomplished a great deal and as a senior has his team positioned to win the BCS+1 MNC. That's Heisman-like. However, I'm not sold that he is a more deserving winner of the Heisman than is Tebow and I believe ..... as of today .... there is a significant substantive evidence to support that position. Terry .... I agree with your comment as there's much football still to play. However, we can only opine based upon what has transpired to date.
stats <t>are stats. nothing more. their relevance to any one subjectis variable at best.<br/> <br/> for example.. one QB may have better passing numbers, while the other leads a more effective team rushing attack.<br/> <br/> who is the better passer?<br/> <br/> do stats really tell you?<br/> <br/> the answer is... they don't. Stats wouldn't show that one QB may be running an offense whose running game is made better by his ability to pass, ergo they don't have to pass as much.<br/> <br/> There are so many ways you can look at the numbers, they just don't really matters. <br/> <br/> What is the saying? "There are three types of lies....lies, damned lies and statistics."</t>
I don't see why the hub bub about Tebow and the Heisman, he'll be the front runner next year and if he and UF have a great year he'll win it. He came from nowhere to in the conversation, that says a lot.
Well ... I believe statistics can tell an objective individual a great deal .... especially when it comes to performance and production. Some folks just don't like statitics because they do not support their position. And by the way, you had no problem using NCAA statistics in your analysis on this earlier thread: http://www.theskybox.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2765 And, FWIW .................... UF's Tebow Named National Player of the Week http://secsports.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=2&url_subchannel_id=&url_article_id=9914&change_well_id=2 SEC OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE WEEK TIM TEBOW Quarterback FLORIDA 6-3 • 235 • Sophomore Jacksonville, Fla. (Nease HS) Tebow completed 22 of 32 passes for 304 yards and two TDs and rushed for 120 yards on 26 carries and five scores in Florida's 51-31 win at South Carolina. This season, Tebow has accounted for 42 touchdowns (23 passing, 19 rushing), which is an SEC record. His five rushing touchdowns is tied for the most this season in the NCAA Division I FBS. His 30 points scored against South Carolina was a school record. Tebow extended his UF record of 11 straight games with at least one rushing and one passing touchdown in the same game (also current NCAA FBS active leader). http://secsports.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=2&url_article_id=9921&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2
What "hub bub"? Some folks believe he's deserving of the Heisman in 2007, regardless of him being an underclassman. Too-good-to-be-true Tebow should be first sophomore to win Heisman Looking for a reason NOT to vote Tim Tebow for the Heisman Trophy? OK, here's one: The kid is too darn good to be true. An athletic freak. A charismatic leader. Good looking, charitable. Jim Brown on the football field and Mother Teresa off it. Please, enough already. He's already got it all, do we really need to give him a bronze statue, too. Here's a poor reason to keep the award from Tebow: He's an underclassmen. All kidding aside, the Florida quarterback should now stand as the clear front-runner in what has been a slow-developing Heisman race. Only juniors and seniors have won college football's most prestigious award. Tebow is a sophomore and it shouldn't make a difference to those filling out ballots. Yet, it will to some. Several weeks ago the AP polled 23 Heisman voters and Tebow won the vote, ahead of Matt Ryan of Boston College and Andre Woodson of Kentucky, who've both fallen off since. One voter who submitted a ballot with Tebow at the top said he expected to move him down because he didn't think the award should go to an underclassmen ahead of a senior who won't have another shot. Considering the history of the voting, it's doubtful he's the only one using this misguided logic. When Oklahoma's Adrian Peterson was the runner-up to USC's Matt Leinart for the 2004 Heisman, who didn't think, "Peterson will get his eventually." Peterson didn't stay healthy enough to make it happen. Tebow shouldn't have to wait, either. He's been a one-man offence for coach Urban Meyer. Tebow runs as well as the best running quarterbacks and throws as well as the best drop-back passers. On a team without a go-to tailback, the 230-pounder has given the Gators a power runner to go with Meyer's side-to-side option game. Tebow has rushed for 718 yards on 170 carries and tied a Southeastern Conference record with 19 rushing touchdowns. Unlike Oregon's Dennis Dixon and West Virginia's Pat White, Tebow does most of his running between the tackles. That rough-and-tumble style has taken a toll. He's had a sore right shoulder for weeks, but has played through it. In Florida's 51-31 victory over South Carolina on Saturday night, Tebow ran 26 times for 120 yards and five touchdowns. "He's so used to making plays on his own," Meyer said Sunday. "He's doing a much better job of protecting himself. I counted five times where he makes a 12-, 15-yard run and steps out of bounds. We're coaching him up on that." There were questions coming into the season about whether Tebow could be a consistent passer. That's hard to believe now. Tebow is the second-highest rated passer in the country with a 177.1 rating. He's completed 68 per cent of his throws for 2,532 yards and 23 touchdowns, numbers that compare quite nicely to Woodson, a top NFL prospect who's passed for 2,653 yards and 29 touchdowns. Dixon's running and passing numbers are comparable to Tebow's. With three games left, the Ducks' quarterback has a 163.1 rating, 2,074 yards passing and 20 TD passes. He's also run for 549 yards and eight touchdowns. Dixon also plays with one of the best tailbacks in the country in Jonathan Stewart. Tebow's best weapon, receiver/running back Percy Harvin, has been nicked up all season and didn't play Saturday against South Carolina because of a sinus problem. Without the Gators' leading receiver, Tebow was 22-for-32 for 304 yards passing and two more touchdowns against the Gamecocks. Chase Daniel has had a great season for Missouri, passing for 3,306 yards and 26 touchdowns. As good as he is, he also has far better weapons at his disposal than Tebow. Tigers tight ends Chase Coffman and Martin Rucker are future pros and the dazzling and versatile Jeremy Maclin is what Harvin could become if he could stay on the field more. Meyer said he doesn't feel the need to campaign for Tebow to win the Heisman the way he did when he had Alex Smith at Utah. "We were at a school where not many people saw him play and weren't at as high a profile place as Florida, so I felt an obligation to at least get it out there," he said. "Tim's performance, the defending national champs and a high profile place, I imagine a lot of people have seen him play." If you're a Heisman voter and think Dixon, Daniel, Arkansas' Darren McFadden, or some other player for that matter, have been better than Tebow, by all means vote that way. If you're inclined to only use your vote on players whose teams are still in the national championship chase, than Tebow doesn't make the cut, though it's certainly not his fault Florida has fallen out of the hunt. Just don't snub Tebow because he's got more eligibility left than the other guys ... or because he's too good to be true. http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jXY_OXGXmOdcerhe4dHa25gh3_qg Maybe Dixon wins the award ..... and that's okay. 8)
Personally I think it would be one of the worst things to happen to a sophmore, to win the Heisman. I don't disagree that he's having a great season, but I'm in the camp that doesn't consider freshmen and sophmores for the award. I'd actually like to see it limited to Sr's myself but that ship sailed a long time ago. Tebow won't be the first nor the last underclassman that his fans think should have won. I'm sure Darren McFaddens fans thought he should have won last year. And Vince Young fans think he was just totally screwed over 2 years in a row. Tebow will be #1 on the preseason ballots next year, all he has to do is play up to his capabilty and he'll likely win it next year. Also it's not often that the QB on a 6-3 team wins the Heisman, no matter what the reason for those losses.
I understand your sentiment Terry, and have seen it expressed a number of times as to why Tim Tebow "should not" the Heisman. Not saying this is the case with you but, we do have a situation where support for some other players is really more of a "vote against" Tebow. Same thing happened in 2001 when Senior Eric Crouch won a close vote over Soph Rex Grossman. Both played QB ... and even with his struggles as the Bear's QB, I doubt many think Crouch was a better college or pro QB than Rex Grossman.
Well in the Crouch vs Grossman deal, no doubt Rex was an outstanding college QB, but as a college QB Eric was one of the most exciting players I saw during his tenure at NU. Part of it was the style of offense that the Huskers ran and part of it was the perfect fit Eric was for that offense. So to me, who personally loves that style of offense, Eric was a very deserving winner and a great college QB. As a Pro...well Grossmans got him there.