I have to admit I thought SEC defenses would eat up the Meyer offense and while Meyer has shown he can win in the SEC, it hasn't been with his offense. This year is the first year he'll have a QB who can run his offense like Alex Smith did ...or at least that's the theory. As far as firing Willingham earlier that usual, I don't know how long you guys expected us to wait. He was fired after the last game of the season, who waits longer than that? Should you wait for 2 weeks after the last game of the season, a month? Not in my way of thinking, most coaches are fired pretty much after the last game of the season. It just makes sense with the recruiting situation to try and get on with the search for a new coach ASAP. Terry
The scary thing is Terry that Florida was as close as they ever were in running Meyer's offense in the two season ending championship games in which UF scored 38 and 41 points with the offense looking pretty darned good.
Back on South Carolina....these guys scare me especially at Columbia.. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/sfl-810spurriersc,0,47391.story
It's not a big deal, Bill. Just my "Defend ND" facepaint showing, as you've seen here many times in the past. Certainly your perception of the situation has merit because of the timing, and there is no question that UM was #1 on their list, but I agree with Terry in terms of the timing of TW's firing. The decision had been made that he had to go. Why wait any longer than they did? The botttom line is that, whatever the circumstances, both schools got the coach that is exactly right for them. Unlike some of the more vocal ND fans (not necessarily on this board) I have no issue with Meyer choosing FL over ND. As Doris Day sang many years ago, Que sera sera.
I guess I remembered wrong as to when Willingham was fired. I guess what I was thinking is that he would have normally been given a year or two more to prove what he could or couldn't do. When do you guys think the decision was made to let him go? The catalyst for Zook was losing to Miss State. But I would not be surprised if I had been a fly on the wall in Gatorland that when our new President, Bernie Machen, came in from Utah that he had in mind all along to hire Meyer and the Miss State loss was just what allowed him to pull the trigger. And I don't doubt for a minute that Machen being at Florida was part of the reason Meyer came there. In looking back on the Zook years, if he had not gotten some really rotten officiating in two games, FSU and Tenn, he may have not been let go. Then we might have Zook, Notre Dame might have Meyer and I'm not sure where Weis might be. Or Zook may have been gone by now anyway and I'm not sure who we might have as Head Coach. So all in all I'll live with the past because I'm happy with the present.
"In looking back on the Zook years, if he had not gotten some really rotten officiating in two games, FSU and Tenn, he may have not been let go. Then we might have Zook, Notre Dame might have Meyer and I'm not sure where Weis might be. Or Zook may have been gone by now anyway and I'm not sure who we might have as Head Coach." Bill those statements are smack dab on the money. I don't think Zook would be gone if UF wins those two games as they should have because both would have brought appearances in the SECCG and who knows UF could have pulled at least one SEC Championship out of those two opportunities. If that happens even Machen would have found it difficult to fire Zook and hire Meyer. As I have stated before, the bad Auburn officiating last year actually helped Florida beat Ohio State and the two games you mentioned in a roundabout way also contributed to last year's NC because I have serious doubts Zook could ever game day coach UF to the MNC. So....thank you lousy refs.....I guess.... :lol: :evil: :evil: :wink:
Bill, I think the decision was final after yet another blowout loss to USC, he had a habit of getting blown out big time by our top opponents...UM and USC. There was certainly a lot of disappointment with the way we finished the 2002 season, but it was the horrible 2003 and 2004 seasons plus the awfull recruiting results that sealed the deal. Most of the press jumped on ND because Davie got 5 years and Willingham only got 3 years, problem was we'd had 8 years of medicority and no end in sight. I personally believe that if he had been hired when Lou left he'd have probably gotten 5 years but by the time we reached 8 years with the results we saw on the field there was no reason to give him 2 more years. I think if that had happened there would have been irrevrseable damage done to the program. I've always thought it was racist that the media jumped all over ND for firing a black coach and called us racist, when the Gators were able to dump Ron Zook early in his 3rd season with little or no comment from the national press. Your AD no doubt looking at the body of Zooks work at UF concluded that he would always be 7-5 or 8-4 type of coach and that's not good enough for you guys. And it isn't good enough for the Irish fans either. Terry
i don't mean to hijack this thread <r>but I feel my opinion here is valid given that I was a big TW supporter initially. The TW at Stanford seemed to check his coat, and heart, at the door when he headed to the midwest to coach the Irish.<br/> <br/> From one credible source after another, I've heard story after story of Ty's commitment to his tee times, rather than couch time with recruits. He kept a head strong attitude that the athletes will conform to the system....and that the coaches would not adopt their system to the athletes.<br/> <br/> That's just insane.. Sweet Jesus, even Lou Holtz threw the ball every now and then with Rick Mirer and Ron Powlus. Ty's teams showed a regression in heart and a total lack of ferocity. The great history of the Irish was built on the backs of many VERY physical and feisty teams that refused to go quietly into that good night. Ty's teams rolled over like a trained dog when the going got tough...For goodness sakes, even Bob Davie's teams fought hard.. He was just an idiot with zero offensive minds leading the program and an even worse nose for game (or clock) management. What we had under Ty just wasn't acceptable by any standard for the Irish, and it was getting worse by the day.. Meanwhile Nero is off on the greens working his short game.<br/> <br/> Then the BS departure of Ty? I initially was willing to hold onto the fact that he was a man of character.<br/> <br/> I will admit it. Perhaps moreso than any other time following the Irish, I was wrong. Dead wrong. Ty was a train wreck that surpassed the Faustian standard of failure at ND.. At least Gerry loved the school...<br/> <br/> Sorry, just my 2 cents on why Ty was tossed.<br/> <br/> Back to the topic... <E></E></r>
Terry and Corey, the Gators did take a lot of heat for firing Zook in the middle of his 3rd season. Not as much as Notre Dame took, but the heat was there. I always felt the Gator decision was the right one for the Gators and have to agree that it was the right one for the Irish also. I think both programs are very well positioned to move forward.
If you combine Terry's comments with Corey's, you have a scenario that comes as close to the facts as possible without being able to read peoples' minds. TW's teams lacked heart. I was like Corey, a TW supporter until the BC game in his last season, which I attended. What I saw on the field was embarrassing. We handed BC the game because we did not have the will to win. Everybody on this board who is a bona fide college football fan knows what I'm talking about. You know it when you see it. I saw it later than most, but I saw it. TW had to go. I agree Bill that both schools have the right guy for the right reasons, and both schools fired their predecessors for the right reasons.
A former graduate from ND told me one time at an ND game that TW was told to fire the Off Coord and a vouple other ass. but TW said no and that was another broken straw against him. Can't be that true if he didn't take him with him to Wash.....Anyone heard of this at all?
I heard that story. Personally, I have a problem believing that non-football people would micro-manage a coach's staff like that. However, I guess nothing would surprise me.
I've heard that he was asked to make staff changes after the 2003 season, which if you remember ended ignomiously in the Carrier Dome in one of the worst efforts I've ever seen from an ND squad. He refused to make staff adjustments. But I don't think he would have been fired had it been up to Kevin White and/or Monk, refusal to make adjustments or not, the Board of Trustees stepped and forced his ouster.
In my reading the past couple of days, I ran across a commentary that said TW helped himself out the door with a lightly regarded and small (17) recruiting class in 2004. Comparing the ND situation to FL, it's been my understanding that Zook was a knockout recruiter but could not win the big games. In ND's case, it became obvious after two seasons and a couple of blowout losses to so-so teams (for example, Syracuse, mentioned above by Terry) that both the coaching AND the recruiting was very weak. I think that all in all we've painted a pretty clear picture that the timing of TW's firing was appropriate, despite the media rhetoric aimed at denigrating the integrity of ND's decision-making process (race-baiting, not honoring 5-yr. contract, etc.).
Zook was indeed a superior recruiter and he could win some huge games and he beat Georgia in their prime and he beat FSU at FSU when Spurrier could not. Zook's problem was losing to teams he shouldn't have in very sloppily played games ( Ole Miss twice). Zook won at LSU and was a bad ref's call away from being 2-0 in Knoxville. He was oh so close to being "THE MAN" at Florida but it just didn't happen for him and now Meyer makes everyone completely forget that Zook was almost there.