I'm one of those ND fans. I also sympathize with those who feel they were over-punished. However, as egregious as its punishments seem to be to those whose schools are the recipients (except of course for USC :twisted: ), I shudder to think what might happen to college football without some form of rules enforcement body like......like.....the NCAA. My gosh! Look what happens even with the presence of the NCAA. Can you imagine the chaos without the spectre of punishment for wrongdoing? The problems at Miami were due to a rogue NCAA official who for some reason chose to ignore the red flags around what she did. I guess even the NCAA is not immune to problems within its own ranks. That notwithstanding, and understanding that there are two sides to every case, I'm glad we have some form of formal rules enforcement.
If Miami gets off on a technicality it will be a shame, kind of like a somebody who commits a crime and there is plenty of evidence to charge/convict but the arresting officer didn't read him his rights correctly.
Of like someone who commits murder gets off because one of the arresting officers used a racial slur.
Of course the opposite may be worse. What if an innocent man is executed because of sloppy police work. I think what we are getting at here is that the NCAA should at least follow their own rules. Just like the police have to do. 8)
Whether we may like it or not there is/should be a standard of ethics and procedure by the investigating party. In this case the NCAA blew it. Probably more likely in this case it came to light. So what's best to punish Miami more because we are pretty sure they are guilty, or hold the NCAA to a standard that they should be held to? No easy answer but I think in the long run we are all better off if the NCAA is held to a standard that they will need to follow in the future.
Thank God OJ was aquitted. After all, if Furman had said the word "nigger" he must have been innocent.
In my opinion, everything that has happened at Miami since the 90s is the NCAA's fault. They had the chance to drop the hammer (justifiably) on Miami. I can't think of any rational person who follows college athletics who would tell you otherwise.. but they didn't. They let the Canes off light, especially considering that they were a clear cut candidate for the Death Penalty. ****, they were the poster boy for it. The NCAA had gotten tougher and tougher, then amid their streak of busting chops in the 90s, they blinked on the highest profile and clearest cut case on the block. What message does that send? The Canes had rogue coaches (several of them), they had fans/boosters handing out cash on the sidelines then bragging about it for another decade as well as school officials fudging Federal Pell Grant info to get the players as well as their friends a few extra grand here and there. Nothing I just said was even in dispute. They deserved the hammer of God and instead were let up off the mat. What message did they (the NCAA) send? In the ND case, the committee that votes on major violations couldn't even reach the majority vote needed to continue on in their investigation. The head of the committee (the guy from Kentucky) decided that they would (in unprecedented action) push forward with the process in the event that major violations surface. Then AFTER THE FACT, they used that act (because they couldn't use the vote) to retroactively change the definition of booster and hit ND with a major violation. They literally made it all up as they went along. At ND there were minor violations (such as Eric Chappell selling his girlfriend his tickets), but nothing even remotely major by every written definition of the NCAA bylaws. The real kicker is (we know this now in hindsight) that the Kentucky AD who pushed that through was busy busting ND's balls while his own head football coach (Hal Mumme) was back home writing checks to football players right out of a Kentucky Athletic Dept slush fund checking account..He didn't even try to hide it. I know a lot of you guys wrote off the post-NCAA investigation lawsuits in Alabama at the time as sour grapes. I know that story played real well in the national media. Just a bunch of hicks, rubes and sour graped rednecks angry because they were caught cheating.. As the guy who lives here who is constantly calling out the hicks, rubes and rednecks on their ******** even I was trying to tell anyone who would listen that these guys were telling the truth. The NCAA just made **** up and intimidated people into telling them what they wanted to hear..not what was true.. And let's not forget the 'free pass anonymous testimony' given to Alabama's chief rival coaches. Can you imagine taking secret testimony from Pete Carroll about an investigation involving Notre Dame? How about Urban Meyer testifying anonymously about a Michigan investigation? Hell, by the end of the day, he'd have the NCAA digging up Jimmy Hoffa at the 50 yard line of the Big House. I'm sorry. The NCAA has become the drunken, abusive step father who is just randomly beating people and breaking **** in the house. They need to be put in time out until their affairs are in order. No one is saying you can't come back, but you can't come back until you sober up. If Miami gets away with murder, then so be it. I agree with Sid that we need this body.. but until that ruling body is truly worthy of respect, then they just can't be that guy. Don't think those greedy whore Athletic Directors and University Presidents wouldn't love an NCAA free world... and we're getting closer to that by the day. We need the NCAA to straighten up and fly right. Until we and they admit they have and are the problem, it will continue until they aren't welcome back in the house anymore.. Remember..the only thing that gives the NCAA its power are the schools.
Corey, I agree with everything you said. We do need the NCAA, but we also need them to act within reasonable limits. I think I remember you criticizing the NCAA for how the handled the Tarkanian investigation. This is a watershed moment for them and we will see what they do about themselves.
Corey, I agree with your well thought out and well expressed comments except for the first one. Everything that happened at Miami since the 90s is Miami's fault, not the NCAA's. Beyond that comment, I agree with everything you said. I completely understand your point re: Miami, but I believe you would agree that only Miami is responsible for monitoring its sports programs.
I think that college sports to a great extent are out of control right now and that is with then NCAA running the show. Can you imagine big time collegiate sports with no governing body? Can you say WWE? The moment money reaches these proportions then anything goes.
I read on a Gator board speculation that if Miami sued the NCAA that the NCAA would then have the right to depose witnesses under oath. Any truth to that hipper? If so then Miami might have a lot to lose by taking this to far. Very interesting indeed.
If there were a lawsuit, then depositions could be taken by the NCAA. Those are done under oath. I keep recalling the article in Yahoo sports about what went down in Cane town. They're ranting about the corrupt NCAA is pretty ludicrous.
We need the police too, but they must comply with the Constitution. We need someone to exercise control over college athletics but they must follow their own rules.
I agree with you gipper, however I think that the enforcing body needs to act within boundaries also or they run the risk of what is going on now.
F Lee Bailey asked Mark Furman if he ever used the word "nigger." That question should never have been allowed by the idiot Ito who was the judge. There as here, the obviously guilty defendant is trying to skate by showing that the enforcement group didn't follow ALL the rules. Sorry, a criminal doesn't walk because the investigaor didn't put another dime in the meter.
What if the star witness is a convicted felon, liar and ponzi scheme operator? Like it or not, the character of the witness has always been called into question. We put rape victims on trial, when it should be the rapist. How many criminals have walked because the only witnesses to their activity are people of ill repute? Could Miami (and if I'm not mistaken, their law school doesn't exactly suck) then call it witnesses and take depositions about previous NCAA conduct in which they have manufactured evidence, or in some cases manufactured it? I may be wrong and Gipper is infinitely more qualified than I to speculate on this, but could Miami not take this opportunity to put the NCAA on the defensive? Or are prior bad acts, or perceived/alleged bad acts, not admissible in a situation like this? Don't get me wrong. I think/know that Miami was guilty. They have been for some time. At the same time, you've got to prove it. And yes, I do understand fully the difference between civil and criminal proceedings. That being said, civil trials (from what I've gathered) can be really messy situations in which what is and isn't admissible testimony is a rather loose exercise compared to criminal trials. Am I wrong about that? (serious question, not a loaded one)
I'm trying to get my hands around what type of suit Miami would bring against the NCAA. As far as I know, Miami has not at this point been sanctioned by the NCAA and therefore there are no damages. The school could take the position that they have done nothing wrong but that doesn't square with the fact that the school has been sanctioning itself for the past 2 years hoping to take some of the sting out of anticipated NCAA sanctions. The burden of proof in NCAA investigations has to be less than that in criminal cases. The body does not have subpoena power and quite often the wrongdoers just clam up. I realize that the star witness is a convicted felon but that doesn't mean that the photographic and documentary evidence is not reliable. I had a much more difficult time with the NCAA involving itself in the Sandusky matter. That had nothing to do with the competitive balance of the football program being tipped by anything that bastard did. I almost got the impression that PSU wanted to be punished. They did agree to the sanctions as far as I know.
Over the years, I've softened on my feelings toward Miami, feelings brought on by the conduct of the football world's biggest a--hole, Jimmy Johnson, and perpetuated by his successors. I truly believe that Miami's football program has turned the corner and is a respectable program. However, all smoke aside, it looks on the surface like they clearly are guilty of conduct somewhere in the neighborhood encompassing on one end, failure to monitor, and on the other end, lack of institutional control. It's very sad.