Good stuff, BT. Because of his Gator loyalty, MCG sifts through the stats and picks and chooses only those that support his point of view, regardless of what the complete picture shows. I give him credit for his initiative, but for that reason his posts have become white noise to me. Your stats above obviously are a defensive reply to something he has posted. Of course, you are loyal to the Bucks like MCG is loyal to the Gators, but because your initiative matches his, all of us Skyboxers get to see some very interesting comparisons. Thanks to both of you for this ongoing debate. AJ, that gator dancing in the hula hoop is great! LOL!
Thanks Sid....we are all in denial to varying degrees to the warts of our beloved schools no question. After seeing the disparity between theGator offensive yardage production and points scored, I was curious as to where the "leakage" - pun intended - :twisted: was occurring. They are ranked 20th in total yardage yet only 37th in points scored suggesting a relatively inefficient offense. The Buckeyes are ranked only slightly higher 16th in total offense yet 7th in points scored. As it turns out, my initial hypothesis posted earlier seemed to be correct....the Gators are much more prone to make mistakes - TO's and penalties - their FG kicking is horrid and they don't have Troy Smith and his ability to make plays on third down and move the chains. If the Gators can play a relatively mistake free game and win the turnover battle it has the potential to be a great game......if not, I fear it won't be.....hmmmm, that said -v- the Stripeheads penalies were even and we were negative 3 in the TO battle and still managed to prevail. 8)
UF's undeserving of a slot in the BCS-MNC game ..... and I just hope Meyer's outstanding coaching can somehow keep them within 42 points of the Buckeyes. I now think the score will be something like 49-7, OSU .... with UF scoring late on a B James KO return for a TD against OSU walkons.
Serious question to MCG, Bill, Gaterz, Wendy and any others that may be lurking.... What is the "official" company line when it comes to reconciling "Meyer's outstanding coaching" with the fact that his Gators are one of the more mistake prone - penalties and TO's - in 1A? No doubt he has achieved some degree of success in his still young career, but has there been any debate or frustration expressed over their tendency to make mistakes? Just curious....
"Bucks are vastly more productive where it counts....putting points on the board." And you would of course say that the Big Ten defenses are on par with SEC defenses I assume. LSU, Tenn, Bama, Ga and Aub and even SouCar all play defense no better than Purdue, Iowa, PennSt, Mich St and Mich. I wonder how Fla would fare with a steady diet of those defenses.
MCG, If I were you, I wouldn't be so quick to put down the defenses in the Big 10. This is not the year to be touting the SEC defenses, regardless of how you view the issue through your orange and blue glasses. By the way, why did you include a poor MSU team and not Wisconsin? That's the equivalent of citing Vanderbilt and leaving out Auburn or LSU.
MCG, you can't be serious..... "Mich" I would submit that you are the only human being on the planet that would suggest that the Stripeheads can't play defense.....I would daresay there would much more agreement with the statement that they have the best defense in the country. I will agree that there are some solid defensive teams in the SEC but let's get serious, the notion that Michigan can't play defense is patently absurd..... The argument that the Gators relative lack of scoring efficiency is entirely due to the vast superiority of SEC defenses over their Big 10 counterparts falls apart when we view the relatively modest Gator offensive production against those defensive stalwarts KY, Vandy, So Car and even Tenn.
T I'm unwilling to judge UM's coaching on one football stat ..... but rather his ability to produce a successful team of young men. Considering what he's achieved with the program over the last 23 months, I would characterized his "coaching" as outstanding. WRT UF's penalty rating for 2006, it's interesting to note it is not that much different than what was experienced under the last two coaches. Year-games-penalties-yards 2006 - 13 - 110 - 838 2005 - 12 - 102 - 738 2004 - 12 - 106 - 844 2003 - 13 - 96 - 771 2002 - 13 - 91 - 712 2001 - 11 - 101 - 721 2000 - 12 - 93 - 692 1999- 1998 - 11 - 99 - 825 1997 - 10 -83 - 667 1996 - 12 - 125 - 1095 I think a good part of the cause over that last 2 seasons has been a change in o-line blocking philosophy in 2005 and then, a new o-line in 2006. Inexperience has been the cause of many procedure calls. Hopefully, we'll see an improvement in 2007 as much of the current o-line returns. Something interesting I noted in the 2006 penalty stats for UF and OSU is the average yardage per penalty for each team. While UF's was 7.6 yards per flag, OSU's was just over 9 yards per call. Also .... to note ..... the average winning rate for the least penalized half of the 119 Div1A teams is 54% while the rate for the most penalize half is 51%.
Gaterz, I agree with you....results speak for themselves. I was just curious what the buzz was in the Gator community. Interesting stats re: Gator penalty history.
WRT penalties while all, including UM, would like to see the number decline ...... I don't think it's a huge issue as most who follow Gator football can see this is a much more disciplined unit ... on and off the field ... since UM arrived. I think UF fans are conditioned to a high number of penalties as it's been a "problem" for such a long time. Whether the cause for the relatively high number of penalties is just poor execution .... year in and year out ...... by UF's players or the result of a bias against UF .... or perhaps a combination of both, no one really knows. However, the fact that UF is a heavily penalized team continues to sustain the belief held by many of its faithful that UF will always be more penalized than the opponent, especially in an SEC game. Fortunately, penalties did not cost UF a victory in 2006. However ..... interestingly enough ...... a controversial call in the Auburn game surely added to the theory that UF will never get a break from an SEC official, especially against a team from the "conference home state" of Alabama. :wink:
Thoughts; 1. Sometimes having a reputation for being a penalty-prone team might get you a penalty called now and then when it otherwise might have been seen as a "good no-call". 2. Sometimes being a team with "breakdowns" may cause you to get more penalties...i.e. holding penalties to protect the QB, interference penalties to prevent the TD after you're beaten, etc.
If I'm not mistaken Bobbah Bowdens Seminoles were always amongst the most penalized teams in the country when they were on that 14 year run of always finishing in the top 5 and never losing a bowl game.
Thought I'd look at how UM, SOS, and RZ did with other teams. Seems their experience is better at "other" schools: Coach Year Gms Pens Yds Yds/game Yds/penalty Per game UM 2006 13 110 838 64.46 7.62 8.46 UM 2005 12 102 738 61.50 7.24 8.50 UM @UF 25 212 1576 63.04 7.43 8.48 RZ 2004 12 106 844 70.33 7.96 8.83 RZ 2003 13 96 771 59.31 8.03 7.38 RZ 2002 13 91 712 54.77 7.82 7.00 RZ @UF 38 293 2327 61.24 7.94 7.71 SS 2001 11 101 721 65.55 7.14 9.18 SS 2000 12 93 692 57.67 7.44 7.75 SS 1998 11 99 825 75.00 8.33 9.00 SS 1997 10 83 667 66.70 8.04 8.30 SS 1996 12 125 1095 91.25 8.76 10.42 SS @UF 56 501 4000 71.43 7.98 8.95 All @UF 119 1006 7903 66.41 7.86 8.45 SS 2006 12 77 585 48.75 7.60 6.42 SS 2005 12 72 558 46.50 7.75 6.00 SS @USC 24 149 1143 47.63 7.67 6.21 RZ 2006 12 59 460 38.33 7.80 4.92 RZ 2005 11 69 557 50.64 8.07 6.27 RZ @ILL 23 128 1017 44.22 7.95 5.57 UM 2004 12 88 765 63.75 8.69 7.33 UM 2003 12 90 773 64.42 8.59 7.50 UM 2002 12 75 681 56.75 9.08 6.25 UM 2001 11 65 594 54.00 9.14 5.91 UM U&BG 47 318 2813 59.85 8.85 6.77
Reverse chronological order by coach: Coach Year Gms Pens Yds Yds/game Yds/penalty Per game UM 2006 13 110 838 64.46 7.62 8.46 UM 2005 12 102 738 61.50 7.24 8.50 UM @UF 25 212 1576 63.04 7.43 8.48 UM 2004 12 88 765 63.75 8.69 7.33 UM 2003 12 90 773 64.42 8.59 7.50 UM 2002 12 75 681 56.75 9.08 6.25 UM 2001 11 65 594 54.00 9.14 5.91 UM U&BG 47 318 2813 59.85 8.85 6.77 RZ 2006 12 59 460 38.33 7.80 4.92 RZ 2005 11 69 557 50.64 8.07 6.27 RZ @ILL 23 128 1017 44.22 7.95 5.57 RZ 2004 12 106 844 70.33 7.96 8.83 RZ 2003 13 96 771 59.31 8.03 7.38 RZ 2002 13 91 712 54.77 7.82 7.00 RZ @UF 38 293 2327 61.24 7.94 7.71 SS 2006 12 77 585 48.75 7.60 6.42 SS 2005 12 72 558 46.50 7.75 6.00 SS @USC 24 149 1143 47.63 7.67 6.21 SS 2001 11 101 721 65.55 7.14 9.18 SS 2000 12 93 692 57.67 7.44 7.75 SS 1998 11 99 825 75.00 8.33 9.00 SS 1997 10 83 667 66.70 8.04 8.30 SS 1996 12 125 1095 91.25 8.76 10.42 SS @UF 56 501 4000 71.43 7.98 8.95 Seems UF is always worse, inspite of coach .... and players over the 10~ year period. Hmmmm ..... only consistent factor is that 80% of UF's games are officiated by the striped men of the SEC. Hey MCG .... do you see this??
Wow Gaterz.....I have always known this to be true but it is quite something to see this empirically stated as you have. That is clear evidence over three coaches and many years and many sets of players that there is an SEC officiating bias against Florida. Now watch the "whiner patrol" come out here and say that means nothing....it's B/S....us Gators need to move on...etc... I would like to see just one of these Florida detractors with regard to the ref issue come out and debate your numbers with sane arguments as to why that huge disparity in coaching venues vs. penalties called should be. It's not even close as most of us Gator fans already know. The last time Florida played for the NC the ref issue was huge going in and the Big 12 crew that came in and gave UF equal and fair treatment made Mickey Andrews' jaw drop when they called FSU with two late hits on the Qb. I laughed my ass off at his expression that night when he came to the cruel realization the refs were not in his pocket vs. Florida for a change.
Gaterz, the only problem with this element of your conspiracy thesis is that in most of those years referenced there were other SEC teams who were penalized more than your Gators....imagine the paranoia of those schools! :shock: Imagine.....they were penalized even more than the school against whom the officials are conspiring!!!! :shock: My question would be.....what are the officials to do when the team they are conspiring against meets the team against whom more infractions are whistled????? That is a dilemna wrapped up in an enigma....... :lol: :lol:
BT....that doesn't fly when you consider it most likely was not the same SEC team every year just edging UF out for most penalized. But you can bet your ass that UF was in the top 2 or 3 every single one of those years if not right on top. That is really a cop out answer BT and it doesn't surprise me in light of the condemning data brought forth by Gaterz that your response would be without serious merit. From ESPN before Fla-Ark: "Florida is the SEC's most-penalized team -- with 25 more penalties than the next closest team" Now I expect Tom, Corey, Wendy and Gipper to chime in and say it must just be the offensive nature of the Gator uniforms and we deserve what we get for wearing em and we should just be happy and smile and enjoy the screwing we get. I guess if Urban wants to coach mistake free football he'll have to switch schools and suddenly, miraculously....just like Steve Spurrier and Ron Zook he will learn how to get it done without penalties. These Florida-bred footballers must just be a bunch of dummies eh? Even if they are from out of state they just "dumb down" and get flagrantly mean once they set foot on the Florida campus. Sid/BT...with regard to the defenses faced by OSU and UF...yes they both played some slouchs at the bottom end of the schedule but compare the NCAA average defensive ranking for the top 9 defenses on each team's schedule: Florida's: 26.5 OSU's: 35.8
Ooops......well, actually not.....in one year there were actually 7 SEC teams that were more heavily penalized than your Gators. Imagine the officials that season MCG.....they had no freakin' idea what to do? :shock: re: defenses - are you still suggesting that Michigan is not an outstanding defensive football team? That is reidiculous..... I, for one, don't believe you need to denigrate other teams in other conferences in an effort to somehow validate your team......your Gators are a quality team and you're in the National Championship game. Enjoy it......