Oh, so now we have to support a costly boondoggle...90% with federal tax dollars...just because it would be good for downtown Tampa. Once again, the pigs feed at the trough...except you only seem opposed to it if it's Republicans. Sid, I'm not sure why high speed rail would make sense for the counties around Indianapolis. Better mass transit systems probably would, but high speed rail is meant to go longer distances. Oh, and this stuff isn't even high speed rail...just "a little faster" trains. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10170 Here's an article I like...when now-Governor Kasich criticized Ohio's "high speed" rail plan by pointing out that the average speed from Cleveland to Cincinnati would be 39 miles per hour, allowing a 4 hour car trip to be made in 6.5 hours by train...so then Strickland's people re-evaluated their estimates twisting every string they could...and got the time down to 5 hours (50 mph) and that was good enough for them and good enough for the stupid paper to rate Kasich's claims "half true". http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2010/dec/08/john-kasich/ohio-gov-elect-john-kasich-rejects-passenger-train/ And then we compare them to 1935 steam trains and they lose. http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/jan/07/brent-larkin/columnist-brent-larkins-claim-about-1935-steam-tra/ These things are complete boondoggles. http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2011/01/a_train_that_ohioans_were_luck.html
You are correct, Stu. I latched onto the term "high speed" when actually the type of rail system I described would be mass transit. The common thread is that the majority of taxpayers do not want to spend local money to build and operate the system.
Fox News explains the diversion: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/09/feds-divert-florida-high-speed-rail-money-amtrak-15-states/ FYI....the high speed rail in Florida would be a brand new rail system between the tourist mecca of Orlando and the Tampa area running at speeds of 168 - 186 mph. "Florida High Speed Rail was a proposed high-speed rail project in the U.S. state of Florida. Initial service would run between the cities of Tampa and Orlando, with plans to then extend service to South Florida, terminating in Miami at the Miami Central Station. Trains with a top speed of 168 mph (270 km/h) to 186 mph (299 km/h) would have run on dedicated rail lines alongside the state's existing highway network" I made the drive to Miami this winter and it is a tiresome 5 hour drive that I wouldn't make too often and the RT must have burned up $120.00 in gas. But.....nah.....the regular citizens of Florida don't need such a "boondoggle".....thank you Governor Scott for speaking for the 65% of Floridians who disapprove of your ass. Give me a effing break. :roll: :evil: "In fact the poll found that in a rematch today with Democrat Alex Sink, Scott would lose 56-37."
No, sorry...no effing break. There are other legitimate ways to look at things. High speed rail from Orlando to Tampa....wow! You'll spend more time in the train station than the one hour drive. High speed rail from Orlando to Miami? Subsidized to the tune of billions? By your own state after the Feds bail out? For benefit of the few people who regularly travel Tampa to Miami? Ask them if they'd like to pay a fare high enough to cover the cost. Ask yourself if you'd like to pay a fare hight enough to cover the cost to save yourself the "tiresome five hour drive". No, you want me to pay for it. Brilliant. http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/florida-governor-nixes-high-speed-rail-boondoggle
You missed the part where the overage was estimated at 300 million to be paid for by a fund already started in 2009. You are paying for the 2 billion.......it's just not being spent in Florida.
So who is going to come up with the billions after overruns and after the thing needs to be subsidized...either forever or until it closes down as a big waste of money? I suspect that will involve billions...or close to it.
Yeah I guess Scott was the chief engineer on that one......he "knew" that the 300 million fund wouldn't take care of it and that ridership would be so miniscule that it wouldn't pay for itself. After all......the Tampa/Orlando area combined has about 5 or 6 million permanent residents if you count Lakeland, Sarasota, Bradenton and all of the many, many surrounding communities plus the two areas combined have millions upon millions of annual visitors. Can't see anyone having a need for high speed train service in that bunch....no siree. Rick Scott is a friggin rail expert obviously. FYI....an April poll showed his level of disapproval here in the state amongst registered voters has more than doubled since Feb. in part because of his stance on the rail issue. With the recent news of the distribution of that 2 billion to other states that disapproval rating has probably tripled over Feb. numbers.
So once again rather than having a debate about the facts of the wisdom of the "high speed rail" you fall back on...approval numbers for the guy as proof of your point. The truth is that if it was such an economically viable and good idea all of these millions of riders you are touting could pay for it themselves.
Amen.....indeed, if it is such a compelling investment, there is nothing to stop the fine citizens of Florida from raising the money themselves. If the fine people in other states wanted to use their tax dollars to fund an investment that benefits only the residents of Florida, they would move there.....classic pork and the Chinese are thankful for the business and further leverage for their foreign policy designs. Wake up America.....
The fact remains that the two billion offered went elsewhere. It didn't go back into the pockets of the Donald Trumps of the world.......or pay down the national debt.....it's going into rail projects.....just not Florida's. The state of Florida.....Rick Scott........passed on a once-in-a lifetime offer from the Feds. And it's a very unpopular decision that crosses party lines.
....the fact also remains that that is 2 billion less that won't get borrowed from the Chinese and put on the backs of our children and theirs to pay back. Another pork barrel spending project that sucks an ever greater share of resources from the private sector, the very engine that pays for these massive barrels of pork.....it is unsustainable. Somebody, sometime has to have the stones to say no. Demonize him if you will, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is inevitable.....that the federal budget is not an ATM with infinite piles of cash to fund everyone's favorite project that nobody is willing to pay for with their own money.....
Dave, you talk about the $2 billion like it was money in the bank waiting to be spent. You know better. BT's post above is a hard dose of reality in terms of where the $2 billion would come from. I don't care which party your governor belongs to, he did the people of Florida a huge LONG-TERM favor by declining the $2 billion.
He did us all a favor by setting an example for all governors or every persuasion.....we must get rid of this mindset that the purpose of federal treasury is to fund pork barrel projects, to quid pro quo back-room political deal-making and that it is limitless....it is none of those things but such thinking can bring down this great republic and is threatening to do so as we speak...... We must all understand that the government pays for NOTHING. The government has no money....the only way they can buy ANYTHING is to forcibly take it away from its citizens......
How so Sid? The money went to other states for their rail systems such as the Detroit-Chicago run. I have ridden the Detroit-Chicago rail many times and anything to improve it would be great for the passengers. In fact if it were greatly improved and cut down to say...a 3-4 hour run the train would be packed with riders conserving auto fuel. If that money went instead to paying down the debt I could be at least capable of agreeing with you but it didn't. And now this from Scott's fellow GOP state legislator: http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/early-rick-scott-supporter-sen-paula-dockery-disappointed-rejection-stimulus-money '"This morning I spoke to Governor Rick Scott who informed me of his decision to turn back $2.4 billion to the federal government. I expressed my disappointment that Floridians will lose the opportunity to have the first true High-Speed Rail system in the nation and even more so in the loss of thousands of high-wage jobs that it would bring. Seven teams were planning to bid on the Florida High-Speed Rail project representing companies from 11 different countries including Japan, South Korea, Germany and France, all experts in building and operating high-speed rail systems. Each of these teams had explicitly agreed to design, build, operate and maintain Florida’s high-speed rail system for a firm, fixed price, with no cost overruns and no subsidies.'
Dave, We can't afford it here in Florida and we couldn't afford it ( the tunnel )in New jersey either. You don't seem to have much regard for debt and its long term destructive effects.
One of the many destructive effects of too much debt is paying our bills with newly printed borrowed money. This makes each dollar worth less and less and imports purchased with dollars more expensive. This is why the price of gasoline has gone through the roof. The Obamanites force the country to import oil, then they print trillions of new dollars to pay for it. Each increasingly worthless dollar buys less oil...
We need to increase our own exports and here is an interesting take on that: "“Over the last 10 years, US exports have averaged about $1.3 Trillion compared with $291 billion for Mexico. During that same 10 years, the US has average $46,300 per citizen in purchasing power vs. $13,900 per citizen in Mexico. China, our big economic rival, by the way, has a purchasing power of $4,900 per citizen for that same time period. Assigning the loss of 700,000 jobs to Mexico over ten years under NAFTA may make for interesting headlines, but it does little to reflect the power of the United States economy within the world. Trade agreements help the development of all countries and as the economies of other nations grow, so does their purchasing power. As their purchasing powers grow, so to does our exports and the economy. Mexico is not the threat to our economy. Our predispostion for poor choices on use of our economic prowess is the threat to our economy. Military adventures in nation building in the Middle East, tax relief for the most fortunate, lack of a strategic healthcare and immigration policies in the face of an aging population.........those are the threats to our economy. It is not Mexico. The enemy to our economy is ourselves and the political decisions that we allow our elected officials to get away with in our country.”
I do agree with that as well... Sen. Dockery wouldn't happen to represent a district smack in the middle of the proposed choo-shoo, would she? This "fellow GOP state legislator" you quote wouldn't happen to be one who had her own designs on governorship before she decided she didn't have the backing to beat Rick Scott would she? Gee, I am so surprised at her press release.