Pay no taxes? Pay no mind.

Nice rhetoric BT.....but it doesn't address those healthcare numbers I mentioned above as a percentage of household income.

Also.....I do not assume that anyone who doesn't make a $100,000.00 plus per year is a lazy idiot......especially.....most especially in the current employer favored labor market that this Great Recession has us in the throes of.

 

You don't know me for ****.

For years I paid more than you and Cindy combined in taxes.....the AMT is a ruthless tax provision.

 

Maybe I am cynical over the plight of some people. I scoff at the people standing at the corner with their hand out slowing traffic. I was stopped at a light once with a person that looked able bodied just a little dirty standing there. I offered to pay him to plant 4 trees in my yard. I offered him the labor that was going to be charged by a legitimate landscaper. His response was: "That's too much like work!"

I see that person every time I see someone looking for a hand out.

There were people being interviewed yesterday in Austin that were furious because the wait list was closed for section eight housing. One of them that was protesting the loudest wore all kinds of jewelry. SELL YOUR JEWELRY RATHER THAN ASKING ME TO SUBSIDIZE YOUR HOUSING! A city official was then interviewed that stated: "Funding is depleted. There are 3200 people/families on the wait list already." Until people are turned away, you can multiply that by 10 or more. Make it easy and they will no longer want to work for it.

 

Nor do I want to. We are too far apart on views of everything under the sun. You want the easy way. I prefer to support and defend myself.

 

I don't want the easy way.....I just understand that there can be those who are less fortunate than I and that base household expenses in America such as healthcare, autos and fuel have made it tough going on average families.

I don't live under any illusions about who I am and I don't harbor any elitist views of myself.

That is the formula without which the GOP would have no base.

 

Then address the cost of healthcare.....not enslave entire generations - past, present and future - and create disincentives with handouts and as a result limit the opportunities available for everybody for generations to come that this Great Society has done. Make no mistake, this socialist mindset can and will bring us down if allowed to continue unabated, imho......

Nor do I and I'm also not quite as willing as you seem to be to spend money as long as its not your own.....

 

That is just ridiculous and contrary to all common sense....take a good hard look at that election map again. There seem to be an awful lot of elitists in Main Street, Middle America USA! Seriously.....

You have no clue as to the basic principles and beliefs of the conservative mindset.....

Do you really believe that Thomas Jefferson was a "Fox radio zombie"? Really?

 

Dave,

I had to give myself a cool off period. I am going to apologize for getting a little personal. I am not apologizing because I think my view point is wrong, but because I took it to a personal level. Let me explain one issue to you:

I have a sister-in-law, Rhonda, that is the polar opposite of Cindy. She is 6 years younger than Cindy and has probably earned maybe $1000 in her 26 years being of age. She had a son that is now 25 years old that she abandoned on her own parents door step and collected welfare money from the State of Tennessee for a son that she didn't support. She is living off of my federal tax dollars and I resent that.

She is now trying to make it hard on her own parents, one of which is now in a nursing home. She has thrown so many fits that her own mother has taken out a protection order on her. At that point, Rhonda filed false reports of neglect on the nursing home. She thinks she is ENTITLED to whatever she wants no matter who has to pay for it as long as it isn't her.

There are good reasons for my views and beliefs on entitlements. She is one of the major ones.

 

Tom,

I too have a sister that is seemingly caught in the whirlwind of state support and it's her fault and the fault of the system as well.

She was a nomad all her life in her younger years ( now 50 )....her first husband moved every 2-3 years to follow his job....which is a pretty decent paying job actually for a simple guy like him with virtually no education.

But in any event she never bettered herself with her own skills and resume......always married guys that were on the losing end......and ultimately wound up with a guy who worked cash jobs all his life...and has no medicare or social security for his failed liver and my sister is no help in those areas as well.

She just lost her child support for the youngest daughter who turned 18 and now she is in a fix. If she gets a job......the lousy kind she might get with no benefits then her husband might not get the state support and medical care he needs and will die.

I suspect some things have happened since Rick Scott has taken over here in Florida that have sealed my brother-n-law's fate and he will be dead within six months.

My political views aren't shaped around this catastrophe but it does provide a little perspective. My sister wouldn't harm a flea and is basically a nice person but she is not a well functioning human being right now and she hasn't been for some time now.

So what is she to do? My encouragement and that of my father has been a repetitive refrain...."get a job"......but the prospects of losing all of the benefits can be frightening....especially because there are so many low end jobs that provide virtually nothing in real benefits......unless you consider that medical coverage costing $1100 per month on a $2000.00 per month income to be feasible.

 

....no....just naive people with illusions about themselves financially.......or perhaps racists views in some cases and I just mean that to be factual not inflammatory.

I find it amusing that so many conservatives were worried about increased taxes on those making $250K or more annually. Curious....amusing....puzzling.

 

Much more puzzling particularly given the fundamental truths of math, is why liberals believe you can raise taxes, shrink the economy and outgrow the problem....it is exactly that kind of thinking that has doomed virtually all the socialist economic experiments ever attempted....

Krebs starting this thread discussing the 50% of US households that don't pay federal income taxes....that translates into a household income of somewhat over $50,000....meaning there are households making $50,000 per year and contributing nothing/zero to the common defense of our liberties amongst other things.....then you trotted out a number of $30,000 now you're down to $24,000?

How many different cards can you possibly play in the same thread?

 

I used 24K in discussing what I know my sister would max out for a salary.....if she was lucky and she probably wouldn't get that.

RE: 50K

Things must have changed dramatically in the past 25 years because that used to be just about where my household income fell and I certainly had to pay taxes.

 

Facts are facts.....the median household income in the United States per the most recent census is $50,303.....meaning 50% make above that amount and 50% below.....approx 50% of US households don't pay any federal income tax - obviously there are household with incomes in the range of $50,000 who don't pay any federal income tax - zero. Do you believe that to be a good thing? I do not...

If one cannot find the means - reasonably - to contribute financially, why can we not have a community service option? Surely an army of community service workers can play a material role in helping their country......

 

No I do not....

I also don't think it's a good thing that in 2007 the Palins made 120K or so more than I did and paid only about $8,000.00 more in taxes than I did.....meaning that my federal taxes paid in were at a significantly greater percentage of income than were the Palins and that irked me quite a bit.

I made mention of wondering about it to my accountant because of the AMT I was having to pay and he pulled theirs and the McCains tax filings for 2007 just out of curiosity.

I think McCain paid a little higher percentage but the Palins definitely took advantage of some things I could not.

 

GE and Jeff Immelt paid no taxes. In fact, the government gave them $14B. He is one of Obama's most trusted advisors.

That should make you want to get a carbine and find the tallest building in your city. 8)

 

Dave
Let me just tell you that there is subsidized health insurance for low income families that addresses the high percentage of a person's income going to health care. It is federally mandated, highly regulated and 3 of my employees working in a clinical environment qualify. Most of the housekeeping staff and other low level ancillary staff are benefiting from this as well.

 

Dave, it's because sucking those dollars out of the economic engine that powers this country...think jobs, man...will stall it out and cause economic pain for everyone...more homeless, more poverty...etc.

I question whether your health care costs are accurate...statistics I read cite those numbers as the total cost of the policy...meaning the portion paid by the employer and the employee. To be sure you (we) are in reality paying the whole thing but the majority of it (even though more and more is getting passed on to employees) is paid outside of the base salary you are quoting.

And BT is absolutely right...the big culprit is health care costs...and here is where I disagree with most "Death Panel" fearing conservatives...you just HAVE to have some type of control over who gets what. You HAVE to have some type of disincentive for seeking unneeded expensive services. The sense of entitlement to get the best, most expensive treatment, for every problem...and to have somebody else pay for it...is driving our country to bankruptcy.

I am NOT one who buys into the idea that health care in other countries is so much worse than ours...Yeah, you can find horror stories but most folks from Canada and England are relatively happy with their care.

BT may kill me for this...but free market entrepreneurship is a huge part of the problem...why?...because it is not truly a free market when the health care equipment manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies, etc. get to develop all of these wonderful things...and the consumer gets to freely partake of them all as much as he wishes...AND SOMEBODY ELSE PAYS THE FREIGHT. In a true free market...you get to decide whether to buy the Ford or buy the Cadillac...but you pay for it yourself.

The Whole Article

 

Stu, you'll get no argument from me and you are much better informed on the topic than I but we both know that there is very little about our health care system that would suggest a market free to find equilibrium either supply, demand or price points without the influence of external, sometimes artificial and arbitrary, factors.....

 

My thoughts as well Stu..... here is the most recent analysis that I have seen.

 

"I question whether your health care costs are accurate"

So you are telling me what I have been charged where I work? :roll:

That chart is not even believeable to me.

I paid over $800 monthly just in family premiums in 2008 where I previously worked and if I had to have it where I work now it would be over $1100.00 per month.

Fortunately my wife's plan ( she is an RN ) costs around $500 monthly.

Maybe that chart is for the individual worker only which is always more reasonable.

Throw in a wife and children and you get screwed to the wall.

Of course.....who in this country cares if kids get proper healthcare or not.....right?