Oversigning Cup

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by BuckeyeT, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Bill I'm not losing any sleep over it to tell you the truth. But I do think we should all be playing by the same rules in recruiting, maybe conferences should not be allowed to make "more" stringent rules than the NCAA standard with regards to recruiting.
     
  2. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Disagree.
     
  3. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I don't agree either Terry. Doesn't Notre Dame have more stringent rules than the NCAA?

    I also know that the Gators don't accept some players who can get in elsewhere.

    The SEC has a math requirement for entry that the Big 12 does not.

    And from what I see of Texas recruiting and their numbers I don't think they are signing that many who have trouble qualifying.

    I think it is fine for schools and conferences to have more stringent requirements than minimum NCAA requirements. What I don't think is fine is for those schools or conferences to look down on others who do not.
     
  4. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I don't see the problem with a single national standard on recruiting that all schools can agree on and addresses the problem of oversigning. I do wonder how kids who have not qualified by NSD can be handled, it would certainly be a risk for schools to sign them with out a reasonable certainty that they will qualify for admission in the fall.

    I'm just talking numbers here, not changing schools rights to determine who they will admit/recruit as athletes. Clearly teams like Ohio State, Texas, FSU, etc have an advantage over ND in recruiting since they will take lower qualified recruits (academically). But that's our choice.
     
  5. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    But Terry, I think your proposal to make one part of recruiting standard kind of opens the door in other areas. I think that some standards should be set and then if others want to be more strict so be it.

    If you look closely at the table I linked last night there might be some casualties you don't expect, like Iowa State.

    I would support changes but with care. One would be to make it more difficult to take a players scholarship once they are on campus and another stiff penalties for offering someone and taking it away late.
     
  6. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    As expected, more publicity as we approach signing day. An article in USA Today discussing conversations by SEC Presidents to address the issue....kudos to Florida President Machen for speaking up and taking a leadership role here.....
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...uiting-schools-oversigning_N.htm?csp=34sports
     
  7. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Dr. Machen is a sharp guy, he's also a Dentist! :)
     
  8. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Bill I don't think it is a case here of "looking down at other conferences that don't have the same requirements". (Yes, that goes on, but...)

    If I understand this issue right, then this practice is just plain wrong...a problem that should be addressed.

    Kudos to Fla, Ga, and other SEC schools for trying to do so.
     
  9. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Judging from his public comments, quoted previously and also more below, Florida prez Dr. Machen apparently feels very strongly about the issue...I believe that there is enough public concern about the issue that the NCAA is feeling the pressure to respond, but it will be more voices like his from the leadership of member institutions that will likely compell them to action....
     
  10. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Looks like President Machen is taking the lead on the issue and is harshly critical in the article he wrote on the topic for SI released today.....
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/01/31/bernard.machen.letter/index.html
     
  11. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    "Reprehensible" and "disgusting". If he's looking for a word that describes that type of person, I can help.
     
  12. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't sound like they are going to be holding hands singing kum-ba-ya at the league winter meetings.....! :shock:
     
  13. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Go Bernie!!!

    If I understand gray shirting right the players comes in on his own dime for the fall semester then picks up a scholarship the next semester. I don't think it's right if the player was offered a full scholarship then it was withdrawn. However I can see a situation where a player might be willing to delay a semester so he can play for a team he wants.

    Like I said earlier, I am for some reform if it is done with care so as to not hurt some teams or players.
     
  14. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Bill, I don't see any issues at all if the player is aware of the possibility and has agreed in advance....at that point he himself has made the decision to forgo other opportunities.

    I can't speak for the Florida prez, but I suspect his issue is where the kid is told at the last minute that there is no room and that his only option is to grayshirt or worse, where the schollie offer is just yanked.....at that point as in the example in the Birmingham paper, the kids other options were gone and the school seemed to have just strung him along in the event they could land superior prospects....I agree with the good Doctor's assessment that such a practice is reprehensible.....

    I'm not sure that Dr. Machen is going to win many popularity contests amongst those that advocate oversigning.....
     
  15. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Dr. Machen doesn't always win and he has been known to back down, however he also frequently speaks his mind. Which he seems to be doing now.
     
  16. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Bill, as visible and outspoken as he has been recently using terms like "morally reprehensible" and "disgusting" it's obviously a position and subject about which he feels very strongly....
     
  17. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    SI's Stewart Mandel is the latest to offer his two cents worth on the practice and Coach Saban's discussion and defense of the practice during his signing day presser.....
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20.../02/04/saban-oversigning/index.html?eref=sihp
     
  18. kp

    kp Well-Known Member

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    Ok, BT.
     
  19. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    My two cents....

    Everybody is right here.

    Saban is correct.....there certainly will be attrition and if he is doing his discipline correctly and fairly then chances are some player or two will get kicked off the team and another 2 or 3 might want a transfer. Another 2 or 3 players might go pro early...etc....well you get the drift.

    But...it is very hard to tell ahead of time just what the numbers will be and I don't propose or ever condone cutting a player on scholarship who does everything else he is supposed to do....but excel on the field.

    That is like promising retirement benefits to someone and then when it's time to retire those benefits are cut or eliminated.......no wait.......or selling a low credit card interest rate to an unsuspecting schmuck and then raping him/her later.....no wait......

    Maybe that's how we roll in America anyway...... :roll: :wink:
     
  20. kp

    kp Well-Known Member

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    Michigan qb transferring to Miami?