Ok....for these people and the underemployed....underinsured..... what do you propose that is humane? I am not as generous a person as you think I am but I am humane.... and practical. Soylent Green? :shock:
It doesn't matter what we want. The problem with socialism is that it assumes that everyone is satisfied being treated the same despite inequities in abilities and education. Your problem is not affordability. It is availability.
I don't think most Democrats feel that way.....I know I don't. If you have earned and pay for better healthcare choices..... you get that because you have earned it. But everyone needs some degree of effective health care regardless of their plight in life. Anyone could fall on hard times and if so that doesn't make them dogs you just kick into the street and leave to rot.
Craigslist Ad Shows Reality Hitting Obama Voter Right in the Wallet Home - by BigFurHat - January 29, 2013 - 11:00 America/New_York - 38 Comments Hyscience Here’s a Craigslist poster that’s clearly not very happy with Barack Obama, who he says he voted for. Here is his posting … with a couple of minor edits: What Obamacare did for me I thought it would be great, free health insurance, then I got a job. Boss says 28 hours a week is all they are offering now because over 30 requires insurance. Great, 30% pay cut right off the bat. But it gets better. My 28 hour week gives me about $18,000 a year which is too much for any government insurance. So now by law I have to buy my own ($5000) or pay a fine. I’m f**ked and every year the fine goes up. So what I thought was a sweet deal turned into an a** f**king. Thanks Obama, I wonder how many people like me turn 27 and find out you screwed us? it’s NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests Posting ID: 3575925425 Posted: 2013-01-27, 3:14PM PST Couldn’t have put it better myself … it’s called reality … and he’s got lots of company.
That's where the screwing is taking place here and it's reprehensible and it has been the sorry trend here in America long before Obama.
But George.... you know better than I that the trend over the last few years has been to pass more and more health care costs on to the American employee and to prevent any costs at all to the company if you can find workers willing to work less than the 32 hours that mandate healthcare. This trend is contributing greatly to an ever increasing number of Americans without healthcare......who I understand from our members here makes them the scum of the earth......not worth caring about and they should all just die if they can't overcome these obstacles and get real jobs and proper healthcare.
Dave, why don't you start your own business? One where you can take losses while enriching your employees. Be someone that fixes problems rather than just a whiner.
Not being a "whiner" Tom.....just a god damned realist.... unlike some who live in a fantasy world that the American economy is the same as it was 50 years ago and everyone has simple opportunity for retirement and healthcare if they are just willing to seek it out and work for it. The game has changed for millions of Americans..... this ain't the 60s. Promises made then are promises broken today.
Dave, My company's hours are Mon-Fri, 8:30-5:00P. When I arrive at 7:45A I am all alone. At 5:00PM everybody leaves. When I finally leave at 6:00-6:30P I am all alone as well. I can do everyone's job in my company. Other's can do a small fraction of mine; nobody can do even half . It's my house collateralizing my business loan. I work sick; I have taken off a grand total of 12 sick days... in 33 years ( I'm knocking on wood ). I work weekends when needed. I take work on vacation with me. I closed sales aboard my father in law's boat 20 miles off shore sail fishing. I don't take one more day vacation per year than my most tenured employee. I'm the one who goes to Chamber of Commerce meeting and various Town meetings on my own time. I do what ever needs to be done and I do the best I can by my employees. To be blunt, I don't have the time to worry about clock punchers.
What promises Dave??? We are guaranteed nothing when we come out of the womb. There are no promises. You get what you work for. I too was in the automotive industry up through 1987. I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and knew it was a train headed right for me. I changed careers. I made a thought out decision that has paid dividends. Dave, why have things changed? Why can some be successful while others can't. Is it possible good (maybe lucky) choices vs. bad choices? When I commit X amount to charities that offer services to homeless, why am I required to pay more? How can any government call themselves a democratic society and require me to hand over money to fund healthcare for all when: 1) I pay for my own healthcare 2) I pay higher healthcare costs for myself because of hospitals that are required to give the same care for free to those that can't pay Number 2 is something that you have never addressed.
In 1986 when I went to work for a company that I wound up with for 23 years....a moving co./transportation firm......I interviewed first with NCR and then with Sperry Univac....trying to land in computer sales rather than trucking because I wanted in on the technology movement. I had a one year old son at the time and a wife who was a part-time bartender and I was out of work.....having not worked out with a previous moving co. I had to get a job.... and fast.....and I accepted a sales job with a firm in the moving industry with whom I would go on and have a very very successful career..... better than most. The problem ultimately for me was that at the height of my success.....the millions of dollars in annual sales that I ultimately cultivated.... was from GM and Chrysler..... and THAT was my eventual undoing in 2008. In any event....the "promises" I refer to are not those made to me personally.....just those made to American workers in the previous generations that if they worked hard.....and achieved success at their jobs.....that they could provide for their families and enjoy good healthcare and have a retirement plus equity from their homes and a stock market they could trust their investments with. My generation has seen the evaporation of all of those things and the generation younger than us has seen that they have to accept those 30 hour per week jobs with no healthcare just to survive with food on the table. In other words......it's not easy for American workers these days.....and it's not as simple as you would make it out to be Tom to ensure that one's family has what it needs for healthcare.
However, you have gone on record saying that you have no problem saddling those same children you have with paying the debt created by funding your healthcare today. It is that simple Dave. Americans have grown soft. They, including you, want it now and want someone else to pay for it. My grandparents suffered through the depression. In the 60's I remember them saying they would not borrow money because you never know what will happen. If they didn't have the cash, they didn't buy it. They were responsible people. The thought of someone else paying the bill for them was unthinkable. A day that stands out in my mind was the first time I was able to beat him to the check at a family dinner outing... and the look on his face that said "I trained you well". Plus the look on his face when he turned to my father that siad "Why have you never tried this?". That was priceless. My grandfather retired as a supervisor at DuPont plant in Old Hickory Tennessee. My grandmother worked in the benevolence room at Donelson Church of Christ. She gave out food, clothing, and helped with money to stop evictions for anyone that needed it. That room was actually a three bedroom house across the street from the church that was filled with clothes and food and a little known petty cash fund of $5000 ready to help. I never saw that place with depleted shelves. They have both passed... just as the American work ethic has passed. See Dave, the availability of help to those that need it is out there for the asking. People don't even want to ask. They want the government to feed, cloth, and shelter them.
Of course this is going to make me look more like a poor hater to Dave but I couldn't resist: A priest, a doctor, and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What's with those guys? We must have been waiting for fifteen minutes!" The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such inept golf!" The priest said, "Here comes the greens-keeper. Let's have a word with him." He said, "Hello George, What's wrong with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow, aren't they?" The greens-keeper replied, "Oh, yes. That's a group of blind firemen. They lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime!." The group fell silent for a moment. The priest said, "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight." The doctor said, "Good idea. I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist colleague and see if there's anything she can do for them." The engineer said, "Why can't they play at night?" That would be the obvious answer to me, just like eliminating the pages upon pages of help wanted ads in the morning paper with welfare recipients going back to work... or going to work for the first time.
So I have to ask: Who EVER said ANYTHING would be EASY? (or even that it should be?) This is a world with finite resources - be it financial, natural, whatever. Guess what that means? COMPETITION for those resources. When there is competition, there are winners and losers. We have a free market economy (or used to) which means... those who do it best get the money, those who don't, DO NOT. Nothing is guaranteed other than you have a chance to try. When did it become the common mantra that everything should be easy? Remember "Anything worth having is worth working for"????? Not anymore. GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME. George doesn't stand around wondering why the world is so mean. Tom doesn't. Terry doesn't. Kesley doesn't. AJ doesn't. I SURE AS HELL DON'T. I'm sorry the world has caught up to us with respect to manufacturing and other areas, but whining about it won't change anything. Adapt and improve, or be left behind. Apparently a lot of Americans have not only forgotten that, we've decided it never really existed. Bad news: the world doesn't give a sh!t, and will probably not even raise a headstone for us when we're gone. I can't wait to be Greece. We'll be begging the world bank for more time at some point while our "workers" are bitching about losing a holiday... :roll:
Scott..... saying "it's not easy" is not a plea for an easy ride. It's more of a statement that it has become hard as f*ck to maintain the American standard of living. I guess you missed that. Actually GMA just now covered the subject with some new stats that have come out something about a record number of Americans do not have a savings account or any sort of rainy day fund. You don't think things like exorbitant family healthcare expenses have anything to do with it????? And the answer on this board is downright ludicrous because the sorry state we are in......lower incomes vs. higher essential family expenses....plus no home equity.....more money for the elite vs. the middle class..... was accelerated by Bush's 8 year reign until he ran the train into the abyss. And you guys want to go back to that?
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Fun Fact Of The Day: For Every Job Created Since Obama Took Office More Than 20 People Have Gone On Food Stamps… To be precise, 20.57 new food stamp recipients for each job (841,000 net jobs vs 17.3 million new food stamp recipients). Via Zero Hedge: . . .Since his inauguration, the US has generated just 841,000 jobs through November 2012, a number is more than dwarfed by the 17.3 million new foodstamps and disability recipients added to the rolls in the past 4 years. And since the start of the depression in December 2007, America has seen those on foodstamps and disability increase by 21.8 million, while losing 3.6 million jobs. End result: total number of foodstamp recipients as of November: 47.7 million, an increase of 141,000 from the prior month, and reversing the brief downturn in October, while total US households on foodstamps just hit an all time record of 23,017,768, an increase of 73,952 from the prior month. The cost to the government to keep these 23 million households content and not rising up? $281.21 per month per household.