Stu, I agree with you that in the photos I posted that he looks out, barely maybe just grazing the white line, but out. Problem is these photos are not the ones that the replay refs saw, they are shots from a WNDU camera and zoomed to the max. The rule says that the evidence has to be indisputable to overturn the ref on the field, the announcers said several times what they show the TV viewers is what the replay officals see to make their judgement. Even Matt Millen who spent most of the game cheering for UM, said at the time he thought nothing on the replays was indisputable to overturn the call of the offical on the field. To me that is the problem, the refs ( and not just in this instance, but all over college football) sometimes don't follow the guidelines and go with their instinct, their gut, whatever. Terry
TOK, there would be a lot of upset here if that was a Wolverine foot and the call was not reversed...that is the way we all are. Celebration calls are BS...the rules need changed and if they have to have something it needs clearly defined and consistantly enforced.
Mike, I can discuss whether calls are wrong or proper...but I'm not going to enter your B10 refs cheat threads...nothing but bad things would come of that.
Stu I can see your point. And I can't see that the foot is clearly touching the line only that it is extremely close and not sufficient to overrule a previous call. From the quotes I've seen from the PSU boards confirming my view of calls in Ann Arbor, I really don't need any further discussion.
Stu, I agree that most likely we'd all be upset with the call if it were a Wolverine foot. I'm with Corey, we had all sorts of opportunities to win that game and overcome the refs and we didn't. So I'm moving on. It does seem to me though that historically ND gets the short end of the stick with B10 refs, as well as PAC10 refs. Terry
One final question At the end, when there were stealing 1 and then 2 seconds from us, why didn't they check the replay to see if the KO was touched? Probably the replay ref was already out celebrating somewhere.
The play that upset me the most was the uncalled shove down of Floyd in front of the official. I sincerely believe that should be video that is submitted to the Big10 for review. I am constantly one harping on 'don't be the one to retaliate' and in this case, Floyd did exactly that. He was shoved down at the feet of the official while handing the official the god damned ball to him. There is no way he didn't see it and there is no defense for the actions of the kid touching him then. As for the pic Terry posted, I dont know if he is in or out. I really can't tell. The 3 Bama fans in my office say that he looks in. Either way, it's not 'clear and irrefutable' and that is suppose to be the case when you reverse the ball on the field. As my coworkers pointed out... When Michigan scored their go ahead TD, the official chased down the player and took the ball away from him while talking to him the whole time. Want to bet he was telling him not to celebrate? This **** is old. It makes beating them up there a lot more fun. If this were a Pac10 team upsetting oh....say...Oklahoma or some other big fish out there... ESPN would still be talking about it well into November. The Irish get this every other year and it goes without real mention of reflection. Still, catch the effin ball and win the game....
Good point. Were those P10 refs? Either way, that was a sh*t call. I would like to see the NCAA consolidate and control the officials, ala the NFL. That way there is a centralized body controlling the officials. They can also use greater scrutiny in scheduling the officials. As Dave said years ago, there's no reason to have an Auburn resident calling a game in Auburn. Not suggesting the man would cheat, but simply removing any and all doubt right up front. It shouldn't be this hard, but it is. You can't trust the conferences to do the right thing. It's in their nature to act in their best interest, so how can you trust employees of the conference? I'd just as soon see NCAA refs and leave it at that.
Common occurrence. Happens all the time. Let it go, guys. As bad as the officiating was, it did not cause us to lose the game.
Tim Prister on the Clock Issue. Thinks Riddick did touch the ball and that the clock was right there, and that Tate was 1 sec or less when he fumbled out of bounds. Though Charlie said that Tate was coached to get to the ground immediately after catching the ball and not to try and run, if he had done that then we'd have had a Hail Mary shot. Corey, I agree with you on Floyd it should have been a personal foul. And I noticed that ref trying to keep the UM players from celebrating too much and getting an unsportsmanlike. I'm sure those refs were pumped for the UM win. BTW did you guys know that UM is the only team in the B10 conference who will not allow any refs other than B10 refs to call games in Ann Arbor? Texas was allowed to bring B12 refs to Columbus and Pac10 called the USC/OSU game. And Kevin White agreed to having B10 refs call all ND/B10 games. Thanks Kevin. Also I have to say that JoePa was most likely right back when he chased down a B10 ref and publically called out the B10 on their refs.
Prister on the Sam Young Call....seems to me that maybe it's time to allow the replay officals to reverse penalties as well as touchdowns. What do you guys think?
I wonder why the center of our defense was opened like the Grand Canyon for the entire second half. I wonder why our DBs play 8-10 yards off the recievers. I wonder why our tackling is sub par. I think if I wasn't wondring about these things I wouldn't take time to wonder about officiating.
All the praise the defense got for the Nevada game, they are reaping in scorn for the effort vs UM. Tenuata is being questioned as to whether he is really a good DCoord or is he just a guy who likes to blitz. Last year you could put it on a new scheme, young players, etc. This year the scheme is not new, while we do have young players esp on the DL, they aren't all freshman and guys like Ethan Johnson are highly recruited. While everybody was so excited to see Te'o get the start at UM he didn't last long after he played more like the freshman that he is. I didn't really notice the DB's playing off the recievers 8-10 yd against Mich, not saying there wasn't a play that they did play off but it looked to me like they were playing a normal depth. But with JitterBug Forcier out there they couldn't maintain their coverage.
I am inclined to agree that the video was not conclusive and that the TD should have stood. But, is there a Zepruder video on NDNation that can perhaps clarify whether he was or was not out of bounds?
Going into this game the line was 3 pts. It was viewed as a close game. There is not way that we can have 4 pts. taken off the board, a 70 yd. pass play to the 20 negated by a phantom call and a total of 110 yds. of offense negated on 3 calls and expect to win. We aint that good. It may cause us to lose recruits and a coach. I for one will not just bend over ane wimper "thank you sir can I have another." We have too many of those the like a battered woman take it time and time again and thinks it won't happen again.