Notre Dame Summertime!

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by Terry O'Keefe, May 26, 2015.

  1. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    No doubt kp, people pay a lot of attention when you are on top. I think though the problem starts with over signing all the time, again a legal and IMHO since it's legal a pretty smart tactic.

    In a sense we all have to manage our rosters, we've all got 85 slots and everybody wants to have 85 players on scholarship. With transfers, academic casualties, legit career ending injuries that take awhile to figure out if they are career ending, and kids who just decide they have had enough football. You have to take all of that into consideration if you want to match the incoming freshmen with the number of spots available. Sometimes we have more slots in August than we anticipated and we end up with 83 players and give the 2 remaining to walkon players. Sometimes we get caught in a pinch.

    As I said the criticism comes when you consistently sign more than 25 players like many SEC teams do every year.
     
  2. kp

    kp Well-Known Member

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    Terry, like I said perspective. Not all SEC teams sign more than 25 every year and I don't know how medical scholarships add up either. I'm sure Corey could do the research if he had the time. I also don't understand the Notre Dame 5th year rule. Does Notre Dame red-shirt players? If a player red-shirts does he automatically get the fifth year? Football players at Alabama get 4 years (unless they screw up, transfer or get hurt) to play. If they red-shirt then they get 5 years to play 4 of course. Perspective. 8)
     
  3. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    No all SEC teams don't, but as a conference overall SEC over signs more than any other conference. Again, it's legal. Tenn in the last 2 years has signed 29 and 31 players. 25 is the most you can enroll in August, now rules allow for early entrance and the players to count against previous years class, and of course there are the non-qualifiers.

    ND does redshirt, ND has them graduating by Dec of their Sr. Year or some by May...not many ND kids don't graduate in 4 years. Every year we are one of the top teams in this area. But they have to apply for a 5th year, it's not guaranteed. The assumption is not you have 5 years to get your degree and you can play 4 of those 5 years, the base assumption is you have 4 years to get your degree and they do in nation leading numbers. At one time inorder to be eligible for the 5th year you had to have your degree and be admitted into Grad School. I'm not sure that is an absolute requirement any more, although most are in grad school.

    But it certainly is perception, you are aware of course that the perception of the SEC is that you guys care about athletics and winning first and education 2nd. Fair? Probably not, but years of low graduation rates have left it what it is. I'm sure that you know that around the country that people percieve that the SEC buys/pays players ..Cam Newton was tip of the iceberg. Fair? I don't know. Probably not.
     
  4. kp

    kp Well-Known Member

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    Terry,
    Yep, I am aware of that perception, and it is a valid point of discussion, but my original point was that every time a player goes on a medical scholarship at Alabama, it seems to make headlines and it is assumed that it is "roster management". When you said
    , I think it was the first time I had heard that Notre Dame even did medical scholarships. Now to be honest I don't know how many Alabama ex-players are on medical scholarships, but then again I don't know how many Notre Dame ex-players are on medical scholarships either. Of course Alabama is a public university and most of their moves are public record. That is not the case at Notre Dame.

    No big deal, however if I had made the same statement about 2 players at Alabama, what would you have thought?
     
  5. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Yeah we've done medical scholarships, not sure when the practice started, but guys do legitimately get hurt and are not able to continue to play their sport. So I do think that no matter who gives them out, Alabama or Notre Dame, or whoever...they are a good thing and allows the young person to finish their degree if they so desire on scholarship.

    Of course ND being the good guys the assumption is that they are legitimately hurt and deserving, while the bad guys (SEC) they are probably told they'd better limp a lot to class if they want that Medical Scholarship! :)

    Both of the players I mentioned for ND, most followers of the program wonder why they haven't quit trying to get back on the field, they've had multiple injuries/surgeries and if they were my kids I'd tell them....Son you gave it a good go and it's time to worry about your future and move on from football.

    I know of a couple of instances, 1 at Texas and 1 at ND where an incoming freshman suffered a severe injury before he enrolled and after he signed a LOI. They were both told by their family and MD they were done with football. But in both cases ND and Texas gave those kids a non-football scholarship and they had their education paid for, the ND kid had a brother on the Neb football team and transfered to NEB to finish his degree to be with his brother, the Texas kid went to Medical school. I like the medical scholarship idea.

    FWIW, while I'd like to see uniform rules regarding who can sign a LOI and how many kids can sign a LOI, 'Bama in particular is not doing anything illegal, but they are top dog at the moment and a SEC member so nothing slips by. If you'd read a Texas board anytime we lose a player to a SEC school, always a lot of posts about bagmen, undertable payments, etc. It's just how things are.
     
  6. kp

    kp Well-Known Member

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    Terry,
    Yup, I guess it goes with having a good run. :)
     
  7. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Ishaq Williams offically readmitted to ND, no word on whether or not he will be back with the football team.
     
  8. Tim Gentry

    Tim Gentry Well-Known Member

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    <t>Good news on Ishaq Williams Terry. I'd bet he'll be back on the team. Maybe we are in for a good summer for a change!</t>
     
  9. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    The defensive front seven has more depth than I can remember since the Holtz years.
     
  10. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Williams may be caught in another academic problem, the NCAA requires a certain level of progress towards your degree to be eligible to play, X credit hours by your soph year, X credit by your Jr year, etc. Williams did not take any courses while out and rumored to not have enough credits...maybe he can make them up in summer school, the usual load the guys take is 12 hours...I don't know if you can take more.
     
  11. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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    :!:

    The Irish don't really need him. He's the one who needs a college degree.
     
  12. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Good article on Irish verbal Tommy Kraemer and his commitment to ND even though Ohio State is still pushing hard for him.

    Kraemer Solid to Notre Dame


    Current big battle is over Wisconsin OL Ben Bredenson who is down to Wisconsin, Mich or Notre Dame.
     
  13. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Todd Lyght, Bob Crable and Rocket are all on this years College Football HOF ballot. Not likely all will get in, but I think if you go by the guy who has waited longest, it' Crable's turn.

    He was really a great college linebacker. His block of the Michigan FG at Ann Arbor, where he ran up and used the Michigan center as a stepping stone to propel himself higher was one of the great ND highlights. It was of course legal at the time, but soon afterwards it became illegal. It was the key play and won the game of course.

    Rocket definitely should be in, he was one of the greatest football players of his era.

    Todd Lyght was an All-American and a great college and Pro player. Should eventually get in to the HOF.

    Joe Montana will never get in the HOF, he was a great college QB but he was never an All American, a prerequisite for getting on the ballot.


    http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/060215aaa.html


    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VdmEtZpC4Vk" frameborder="0"></iframe>
     
  14. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    People who gushed over Teo either never saw Bob Crable play or suffer from memory loss.
     
  15. Tim Gentry

    Tim Gentry Well-Known Member

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    <t>Terry,<br/>
    <br/>
    The Kraemer kid is about as solid a commit as your gonna get. Looks to be a very special player at the college player.</t>
     
  16. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if this is the appropriate topic but couldn't see starting a new one. Jim Harbaugh held a satellite camp here in Indy at Bishop Chatard HS (Zack & Nick Martin) attended by 150 players from places in and outside of Indiana. He got a lot of publicity and picked up a commitment from a decent RB, to my knowledge not on ND's radar. He's well remembered here, having been the last Colts QB pre-Manning to go to the playoffs.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...-impact-with-satellite-camp-in-indy/28488753/
     
  17. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Michigan I believe is doing quite a few of those Sat camps around the country. The SEC is not esp happy with them and the are illegal for SEC teams. They are lobbying the NCAA to outlaw them.

    Harbaugh is leaving no stone unturned to get Michigan back on the level with Ohio State and Alabama.
     
  18. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I've seen some chatter out there that besides Ishaq's problems with the NCAA, which Kelly has alluded to but not told us exactly what they are, that there is still a possibility that ND will be sanctioned.
     
  19. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Discussion of Brian Kelly's statement that only a few of Notre Dame's football players could gain admission on their own. I don't get why that it's a big deal, it's something that we've all known for a long time. there might have been a time prior to Hesburgh's remaking of Notre Dame into an elite academic institution where many of the football player would have been admitted on their own..but that has changed with the rise of ND to elite status academically.

    http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/6/11/8761689/notre-dame-football-academics-brian-kelly
     
  20. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Question for Sid and Gip...when do you guys think it started to trend towards most if not all the football players not being able to be admitted to ND on their own.

    I would think that back in the 20's, 30's, 40's and maybe even the 50's that there wasn't some big gulf between the football players and the average student at ND like their is today.

    I know that Fr. Hesburgh when he took over had a vision for ND to become an elite academic school and under his guidance it did just that, but it didn't happen over night. When do you think the tide turned and more and more football players needed special consideration for admission?