It is what it is Stu, just does seem odd to have the guy 40+ yds away from action be the guy who's responsible for the call...lag time or no lag time.
I don't know...I really don't. The back judge, being further away from the action, wouldn't have to move his eyes as far...easier to jump from the play clock down to the center than if you're closer in...on the other hand maybe a closer official could "feel" the action better. On the third hand, those close in refs are the guys who are in charge of determining offsides, illegal motion, encroachment, etc...do we want them watching the play clock?
If Kelly had been a really savvy coach, he would have done what Gary Kubiak did to the Redskins kicker in OT, called time out right before the snap..had to demoralize the guy to see his long fG split the uprights only to have to do it again which he couldn't do! MSU would have been demoralized if Kelly had timed it that close and those guys had to come back after they thought they won the game and do it all over again!! Just sayin' To me the call that grilled my butt was the "pushed" out of bounds call earlier when it was clear to me that the MSU player ran around the ND DB who had position on the sidelines, that was a crock. But we had plenty of opportunity to win it just didn't get it done in the end. On to the next game. And you are right, even I'm glad it wasn't B10 refs, the uproar would be even worse. As it stands most ND fans aren't focusing that much on the did he get the snap off or not, but why were we not in a better formation to prevent the fake. Kelly taking a lot of heat from fans on that issue.
An entire coaching staff missed the play clock and an entire defennse didn't notice an eligible receiver running alone downfield. Those are probably bigger problems. What bothered me was running out of the shotgun on 3rd and 4th and one; talk about limiting your options.
Whether or not the ND coaches saw the play clock doesn't matter. It's not a play that can be challenged. Looking at the replay the ND D backs were picked off at the line freeing up the receiver.
Yeah the MSU kids just bull dozed the ND guys, some said it should be offensive pass interference but from what I could tell the ball was still in the holders hands when they ran those guys over. Harrison Smith slipped/lost his footing or he would have been in position to make the play. It's a moot point now.
In my best Stewie voice......( note: FG reference ) Ohhhhh and I suppose you're seeing black helicopters toooooo.... :wink: 8)
I wonder what we would be talking about if the MSU fake fails because Harrison Smith instead of slipping makes the play and Irish win. Kelly and coaches brilliant for being ready for the fake, MSU fans and writers might take it easy on Dantonio given he had a heart attack, but he'd still be criticised for taking unecessary risk when at home with an offense that had been doing well, esp on the ground, against ND.
Stu, Just a reference to ref bitching....illustrated by my Family Guy characterization of "Stewie".....not to be confused with St-u-ie. My point is that I have certainly had ref issues with regard to how they can influence games as everyone here knows and at times I have caught hell for maintaining that position. Your explanantion should help to soothe some Irish nerves from the standpoint that maybe there wasn't biased judgemental issues at work but I definitely see and empathize with all of the poor call issues the Irish fans have with the MSU game as it was called. The time clock problem was not as judgemental a thing however as having a ref with bad/(biased?) judgement call a PF penalty on a retaliation that costs your team a game but nonetheless it was pretty frustrating no doubt but the other missed calls from MSU-ND were similar in nature to a whole ref crew not starting the game clock after said PF penalty as described above....a time clock blunder that left many precious seconds on the game clock which enabled the home team just enough time to pull off a miracle W at the end. What goes around though....well.....you know the rest. Karma :wink:
Stu, thanks for the common sense comment. you're my new best friend.......for today. :lol: I agree, Terry. It's moot. As I would tell my son when he was in Little League and carried the burden of every loss on his shoulders, one play did not lose the game. A combination of several circumstances led to the loss. Then I would begin rattling off every circumstance that contributed to the outcome. Eventually, he would get the point.
In case you were wondering about my related story here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on the UF-UT rivalry and keep in mind Tenn had no time-outs left: "The teams met in 2004 to have another classic finish. The Gators led 28-21 late in the fourth quarter when Tennessee QB Eric Ainge rallied the Volunteers with a touchdown pass with 4:17 left. James Wilhoit missed the game-tying point after touchdown, the first PAT miss of his career. The Gators took possession and attempted to run the clock out. After Florida gained one first down, they were stopped on the subsequent third down and were about to be forced to punt. After the play, however Florida receiver Dallas Baker got involved in an altercation with Volunteers DB Jonathan Wade and the two exchanged head-slaps. Baker was flagged for retaliating, backing the Gators up fifteen yards before their punt. The officials, after stopping the clock to call the penalty, neglected to restart the clock before the fourth down punt play. After Tennessee received the punt and subsequently drove to the Florida 33-yard-line, Wilhoit got a chance at redemption with the game-winning 50-yard field goal with six seconds left, which he made. The Volunteers won the game 30-28." That game came less than one year after UF was completely robbed vs. FSU in 2003 by the ACC refs who no longer work the game in Gainesville because of it. Frankly...I was beginning to see those black helicopters after that curious loss and it got worse after the Tenn shenanigans. Thankfully though....since the Tenn game of 2004 I can't think of any UF game in which the Gators have received blatantly poor treatment by the refs and in fact it seems as if UF has received a break or two since then. In addition, the inclusion of the review ref from upstairs would prevent the sort of B/S perpetrated by that ACC crew in 2003 because most of their rip-off calls involved possession or loss of on TOs. I hope the fairly called games continue....for Florida and for what it's worth I hope ND can get on a streak of cleanly and professionally refereed games as well because anything else takes away from the integrity of this great sport.