:cry: wow.... poor kids in your sons state I would never suggest to jim not to keep teaching in the school district he is at because of him many students go to high school and stay there and love it... because of him many students who never wanted to learn now love to go to class the schools are in desperate need of good teachers who are willing to look past the politics. by the way Dave did you know Jims major was Political Science. Last year at the school he was at the students increased their state scores by 75 points that is amazing for 1 school year Jims prinicple has filled teaching positions with teachers who are there to teach they have to give daily written homework. the teachers have to turn in daily grades Jim works all weekend on grading and inputing grades as well as every night untl late . and he does this for a salary that is below standard (since he hasnt had a raise in 3 years) but he still does it he still loves it and the kids are the ones who benefit. I hope your son didnt listen especially if he is a good teacher all I can say is WOW
IMO, you must have a passion for teaching if you are going to go into that field. While the pay for teachers traditionally has been below par, it is better in the public school systems than in any other type of K-12 schools. Dave if your son is going to obtain advanced degrees, he can enter K-12 teaching with an eye toward central office administration. I can speak only for Indiana, where because of retirements there is a shortage of qualified central office administrators. The pay is significantly higher, although no person in public education ever will become rich. There is a crying need for more Jim O'Connors in public school education.
My son will be an outstanding teacher....one who inspires many I am certain of that. That said....he is newly married and has school debt as does his wife who is finishing her masters this year and neither have been employed as yet in what will be their full time profession so as you can guess they live a spartan life. He listens to his own heart anyway so I think he feels more of a fit at the college level and that is very important to our young people as well don't you think? Who knows.....he could change his mind but I will support him either way. You know....what a conundrum this is. On the one hand every Republican hates teacher's unions who represent teachers and whose members are teachers but on the other hand almost everyone even the GOP admits teachers are underpaid and good ones are sorely needed in this country as many studies show our kids are falling behind the world academically......and fast.
There are jobs in society that don't pay much but to those that have the calling are wonderful jobs and need dedicated people. Teaching, the Ministry, Social Workers, etc. I'm sure JO'Co is not teaching for the money.
My son is 25 and yet to raise a family although I am sure one is coming one day and he has mounting school debt as I mentioned. Huge difference. Geez Terry....what did you do after dental school.....open up a practice in underprivileged neighborhoods.....charging $10 dollars a visit only if they could afford it?
Went into the Navy and served my country at a salary less than 1/2 what my classmates who didn't go made as private practice dentists.
My mother was a teacher...and she felt that many teachers were overpaid...but that the excellent ones were underpaid...yet teachers unions continue to fight the idea of performance review. I have many friends who are teachers...they seem to be doing quite well in jobs that many would love to have. Teachers overpaid or underpaid It is very unfortunate that we cannot have a discussion of any kind on this board without you; 1. Distorting what others are saying and putting words in their mouths; and 2. Opining that every Republican ever born and especially those here on this board are heartless bastards who never had to work a day in their life, are filthy rich, and have no concern for their fellow man...and probably killed little kittens in their childhood. News Flash; Just because someone disagrees with you about policy and solutions doesn't mean that they don't have the same concerns that you do...and the same desire for policies that allow others to be able to better themselves and do well.
Kinda curious......what year did you graduate Terry? Otherwise....I don't really think anyone here expects my son to forgo financial stability for himself and his family and teach strictly out of the goodness of his heart but of you knew him it wouldn't surprise you if he did.
My draft lottery # was around 67 or so. It didn't matter though as I was in the last group to get a draft # and by that time they had already talked about the certain dissolution of the draft. What was your # if you recall?
Had student deferments in college, and I don't remember my draft # I was never in danger of losing my deferment....but I enlisted in the Navy after I finished my undergraduate studies. The Navy needed Dentists and 4 of my 6 year obligation was spent serving as an Ensign in the USNR going to Dental School. Didn't have to of course, as the student deferment would have continued throughout my Dental School training. I could have rolled the dice, and remember anyway they were never going to put a rifle in the hand of Dentist and put him/her in harms way. While I don't know for sure, I doubt if a single dentist lost his/her life in Viet Nam.
I'll bet that you can find examples of a few dentists in these new wars that have perished. Everyone in the war zone vicinity seems to be in harms way these days.
Following graduation I taught in a Catholic grammar school in Queens NY for 5 years. Didn't pay anything but it came with a deferrment. First year also worked at La Guardia cleaning out planes for American Airlines on the 4 to midnight shift. Would go home grade papers and do lesson plans and then be up and at school by 8 AM. Mary got a job teaching at a neighboring parish which allowed me to drop the airport job and go to law school at night. Because I was teaching I was deferred. Teaching is a lot like being a trial lawyer. Only difference is that I had 50 kids in my class and only 6 kids on my juries.
I think the bottom line is that if your son has a calling to be a teacher he should give it a try and not worry about the money. It's not like he will sign a lifetime contract.
Oh he plans to be a teacher......just not on a public school system's payroll when half of the country is bitching about the low pay he would make and would want that pay even lower if they could have it that way. :wink:
Well as long as he's doing what he wants to be doing then it's all good. Obviously teaching in public schools is not the only way, there is private schools, jr colleges, community colleges, regular 4 year collleges, etc. My nephew looked into the Teach for America program, but his major being accounting they did not have a spot for him, he wanted to teach math and they would only take kids who had majored in math. The salaries were very low, but a lot of kids do it as a way of giving something back, they won't be teaching in a high end suburban school district that's for sure. Many of the kids do it for several years after college then move on to other careers. Sort of like doing a few years in the peace corps.
Your nephew has a degree of idealism that helps to shape his decisions as does my son. My son scored a 31 on his ACT while a junior in H/S and was in a magnet program for most of his public schooling along with his best friend who scored a 34 on his ACT and who is now working on his PHD at Cornell University in Food Engineering. Two best friends.....similar backgrounds but both traveling down different paths. My son's firiend will probably command an 85 k plus salary upon graduation if not more and the kid is definitely more Alex Keaton than my son so it seems natural. When my son announced he wanted to be a teacher instead of getting on a corporate fast track I cringed a little but quickly and readily accepted and supported his decision because this nation does need quality talent in the teaching profession and it is a noble profession as they say.
I have quite a few friends who are teachers...never gonna get super rich, of course, but they are doing pretty well. Teacher's in Ohio are on their own retirement system outside of SS and it's pretty good. There are those wanting to cut it back a bit, but I don't look for huge revisions...I'd just be happy if the teachers retirement and the OPERS (public employee retirement system) could do away with the ability to double dip.
As I stated before Stu it's a conundrum....especially for Republicans but I have an idea on that. Almost all Americans agree we need to do better as a nation in educating our youth and I think it is also recognized by most that we need more quality teachers to do so. But....the GOP side thinks teachers have it too good.....and teacher's unions are a very bad thing and that teachers should be cut back or held in check. In reality though....when asked about it specifically most of those same Republicans will admit that teachers just make a modest living at best. My theory?? GOP constituents always go with the party line and the party line is always against those groups that do not support the GOP......of which teacher's unions are one I suspect. I could be wrong but that is how it appears to me. Just a week ago in Minnesota: "GOP fires warning shots against teachers unions -- but where might they land? By Beth Hawkins | Published Wed, Jan 19 2011 8:28 am Note to Minnesota’s freshmen Republican lawmakers: Before firing warning shots, it’s generally advisable to have some general agreement within the caucus just which bow they’re meant to cross. Several state GOP lawmakers — swashbuckling newcomers among them — yesterday introduced a bill that would bar raises for teachers and other public school employees and outlaw strikes. Specifically, Senate File 56 would prohibit school districts from entering into new labor agreements that include any increase in compensation, including cost-of-living adjustments, so-called step and lane changes and lowered employee benefits costs, through June 2013. In addition to barring strikes, the bill would prevent unions from demanding arbitration" And yet....we already admit those dastardly teachers aren't getting rich....don't make all that much....should work for free?????
Sid, in my past life, I too have had an opportunity to experience a teachers union and thought it might be of interest to all for me to share my experience.... In the mid-90's, while working in Nashville on a chamber project to develop a growth plan for metro Nashville, studies indicated that the quality of the public school system was a real liability in attracting new business to the area. Putting together a public/private partnership to address the issue, local businesses agreed to support a local initiative to increase funding provided that the school system develop a "report card" to measure progress and implement new programs to enhance accountability and better link performance and reward/compensation. I was asked to serve on the task force organized for this purpose....the group included private sector businessman - large and small, education experts from Vandy, school administrators, teachers and union reps. We took our charge seriously and believed very strongly in the importance of our work and it's benefit to the community. We spent months developing a series of measures, specific and relevant to the issues and became strong advocates for a compensation system using those measures that included meaningful bonuses/discretionary pay for high performance teachers......at the end of the day, the resistance from the union was such that the vast majority and most meaningful of our compensation propsals enahancing accountabilty and more closely linking performance to compensation were never implemented.....my view on teachers unions and their role in the decline of our public school system has been shaped by that experience and to say the least, it is not a positive one....one of the single biggest reasons for our move away from Nashville was the state of their public school system and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how they got that way.....