BT When in 2007 did tOSU defeat 11 FBS teams? In fact, during 2007, tOSU was 10-2 against FBS teams. :wink:
Gaterz, I know in my case Bill sometimes weighs in before he has even digested what I have written. He is getting better about it I think wrt my posts however. On Ohio State...I think they have somewhat of a pass but I am willing to see it. The Buckeyes have every reason to make this a great game. They are the one team out of all of the contenders that I can guarantee will come to play with every ounce of their being and that is what you want in the NC game.
MCG It's the ad hominem commentary which I find unwarranted. He reads my comments and claims I have a " need to denigrate the Big 10" ... which is utter bullsquat. No where in this discussion was there a denigration of the Big-10. Maybe it was the fact that I posted Sagarin's ranking of conferences in support of my assertion that tOSU had not achieved as much as say the Big-12 championship game winner. 1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 80.74 2 PAC-10 (A) = 78.92 3 BIG EAST (A) = 78.77 4 BIG 12 (A) = 77.36 5 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 76.43 6 BIG TEN (A) = 75.81 7 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 70.28 8 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 62.51 9 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 62.08 10 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 60.21 Well heck, if that's offensive then the issue should be taken up with Mr Sagarin, and his methodology. Funny how so many of the discussions aren't based upon objective analysis and data provided, but I understand some folks just aren't inclined to such. That okay ... but don't mischaracterize the intentions of another person. Just disagree with their point and indicate why.
Gaterz, always quick with timely and relevant data...... :wink: Let's break it down even further...... 1 loss is better than 2 losses..... We got a pass????? :lol: Show me any system that has been used to crown a champion in college football that would have kept the champion of one of the 6 major conferences who had the best won-loss record amongst those conference participants from playing for the national title....ever? Pass my a$$.....
Mr Sagarin's methodology is fine....indeed let's use it. Conference rankings are not at issue, let's see what Mr Sagarin says about the teams: :shock: 1 Oklahoma A = 92.58 2 Ohio State A = 91.32 3 Kansas A = 90.29 4 Florida A = 90.22 5 Virginia Tech A = 89.69 6 LSU A = 89.47 7 West Virginia A = 89.34 8 Southern California A = 88.22 9 Missouri A = 87.98 10 Georgia A = 86.70 I think Oklahoma is a very worthy opponent in the Championship game.....who got a pass?
Again T ... tOSU had fewer FBS wins than did LSU, Missouri, and Oklahoma. So, applying your "whole body of work" approach, I believe the two spots in the BCS+1 game should have been two of those three teams. Further, there were other teams with as many FBS wins as tOSU and several plyed more difficult schedules, one in particular being VaTech. IMHO, VaTech had as much claim to the BCS+1 as tOSU ...... perhaps more, since it had to play it's way in via the ACCCG .... against the #14 ranked BCS team. Having played a much more difficult schedule than tOSU, VaTech #3 vs tOSU #48, I think VaTech was a more deserving team than tOSU, especially considering their "whole body of work". So if you want to say tOSU got a pass, then that's fine. I'd rather say they didn't deserve the BCS+1 shot the subjective voters in the coaches and AP voters gave them. Heck, I bet very few of those voters even know that tOSU has only 10 FBS wins this season. Having said all of that, I think tOSU has a great chance to show it deserves to be in the BCS+1 this year and, I hope they prove it by winning.
Ohio State is 1-1 vs. current members of the Coaches Top 25. LSU is 4-1 vs. current members of that poll. Still questions that LSU belongs with Ohio State?
My only question is can MCG keep up this level of angst and SEC self promotion for another 34 days? That would break last year's record. You go boy! 8)
Perhaps, but I'm certain that they ALL know that we are the lone major conference champion with only 1 loss.....unlike LSU, Mizzou, Okla, or VA Tech. If, in your system Gaterz you deem those teams who have failed on the field of play more often than we have as more worthy, so be it.....however, as evidenced by the polling results, I doubt you'll have many converts. Indeed, of the 8 SEC coaches who had a vote in the coaches poll, more voted the Buckeyes number one than LSU. On a side note, I do take your obsession with all things Buckeye as quite a compliment. I would think that the rest of our Skyboxers do as well. Keep up the good work....I'll bring you back some beignets.
Why do you need to personalize this? Why not discuss without ad hominem? You personalize, inflame ... the "denigrate' him for responding. Same with you, T. Why make these stupidly erroneous comments? It would be much better if you respond in a substantive fashion without the personal commentary and backhanded insults. Again, you can "feel" what you want AFA tOSU's "right" to be in the BCS+1 game. I choose to believe there are more deserving teams and find supportable, substantive cause for holding that opinion. Realize my postion is really more in support for Oklahoma or VaTech ... or even Missouri ... being in thegame than it is tOSU not being in it. Agan, having said that tOSU has a great opportunity to shop it belongs. Hope they win.
BT......maybe not having to play the additional three Top 25 teams that LSU did has something to do with your "only one loss" theory. LSU won 80% of it's Top 25 games. OSU won 50% of it's Top 25 games.
Theory? What theory....? Based upon what has transpired, it would appear as if that fact was compelling in the minds of those that were placed in a position to judge, no?
Aha! I'm techno deficient, but I was able to google Sagarin and saw the whole story, not just the SOS part that suits Gaterz' argument. Indeed the overall ratings are just as BT presents above. In fact, if you Florida folks look at the two Sagarin factors contributing to the overall ratings, you will notice that the "Predictor" ranks Florida #2, which should make you very happy. On an embarrassing side note, if I counted correctly, ND (87) has 8 1-AA teams rated higher. Here is the link to the USA Today Sagarin Ratings: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm
I believe Oklahoma is 3-0 vs BCS ranked teams and Missouri is 2-2, same winning % as tOSU. Plus, I think Missouri played and won 11 FBS games, one more than tOSU, resulting in an SOS of #13 vs #48 for tOSU.
Gaterz, I forgot to ask, "do your prefer you beignets with powdered sugar, cinnamon or plain?" I prefer mine with powdered sugar..... :lol:
Again citing Sagarin which encompasses top 30 opponents, OSU won 2/3 of its games vs. top 30 opponents (3 total), LSU also won 2/3 (6 total), and Oklahoma won 3/4 (4 total). Hmmmm. Based on MCG's rationale and extending out to top 30 opponents, maybe Oklahoma has a stronger claim than the other 2-loss teams?
Heck Sid, why not start with the records vs Top-10 then drop to vs Top-30 for the tie breaker, if needed? Or maybe use some relative weighting of both ... so teams who do not play any Top-10 teams get some consideration?
But if you want to Top-30 first, then Top-10, then SOS, here's what you get: OK 3-1 2-0 #59 UGa 3-1 1-0 #30 LSU 4-2 2-0 #21 USC 2-1 0-0 #32 WVa 2-1 0-0 #42 OSU 2-1 0-0 #60 VaTech 2-2 0-1 #36
And then there is this......not totally unexpected and I think we will see more of this questioning of the Buckeyes: http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/7520962?MSNHPHMA
Or, if you want to just go completely subjective, just go to the BCS rankings and look at how everybody stands in the computer averages. Ohio State is #3... LSU is #2 #1 is.....ta da....Va. Tech. Now having said that, nobody wanted the thing to be all computerized...so it was made a meld of subjective and objective... I would argue that it really isn't that egregious for the pollsters to move a #3 team up into the game...if so, then we might as just leave it up to the computers...even if you went 50/50 on weighting the two (right now the computer rankings count only for 1/3), Ohio state would be in. But if you want to go completely objective, then maybe Va. Tech got screwed.