I saw them when they were 1AA.. I guess that must have been 90? 91? I had some friends play there. I remember it was when the first edition of blue turf was a few years old..I know they have since laid new blue turf. I also know that the talent level at Boise State seems to get better and better by the year. Their teams in 04 and 05 didn't have a single player drafted. However, that 2006 roster that is being slighted here eventually produced 7 drafted players, highlighted by 1st round, 12th pick overall Ryan Clady who was a soph on that 06 team. Boise use to be the place where your guys who played JUCO ball who didn't get picked up by BYU, Fresno or Utah went to go play... or those guys who were good football players, but were undersized went.. (there or Montana/Montana State). You're a Tennessee guy so I guess the best way I could put it is like this: Imagine UT-C goes DI starting next year...and by the 2018 season they win the Fiesta Bowl and beat Oklahoma.. The talent level on the team would, hopefully, be increasing each year. You may not have been impressed with that 2006 team and that is your assessment. That team would go on to produce: 1 first round draft pick (12th overall) 2 2nd round draft picks 2 5th round draft picks 1 6th round draft picks 1 7th round draft pick That isn't exactly average. And it doesn't take into account the guys like Ian Johnson who may well be drafted this year who were on that team.
By the by... We are now sitting here discussing the 2006 Boise State team. Of all the critiques I made of the BCS system, and there were many... we've wasted all this time debating an undefeated team who beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl, but barely a word mentioned about the other objections I had... And none of this has anything to do with the original question: If your team accomplished all of the things that this year's Utah team accomplished, would you be fine with them having no hope of finishing any better than 2nd?
I did answer. I do think it's a shame that they won't be given a chance to win in a playoff style format. However, to naturally assume that they would beat Florida or Oklahoma is a bit of a reach for me. I'm not saying they couldn't but I definitely am not going to say they would.
One thing is certain. The winner of the FL-OK game will be the BCS champion, but not necessarily the consensus national champion, unless of course all the other recognized polls are in agreement. The game is called the national championship game because that's what BCS calls it.....with the blessing of the national media........but in a year like this, there is a ton of room for debate. Having said that, I'd be shocked if the other recognized polls do not fall in line with the BCS final poll. In the end, I pretty much agree with what Doc said somewhere, that I'm OK with whoever is named the national champ among the OK-FL winner, Utah, or Texas..........but USC definitely does not deserve it. :wink:
Well let me attempt to answer your question. However there are some things left out so let me make some clarifications for my answers. First let's make the assumption that it's not like the year that we had three undefeated teams. That from the BCS conferences we had from 0 - 2 teams that were undefeated. So my team is Florida and they belong to the SEC so since you said my team I'll answer for the Gators first. If my team accomplished all those things your question is moot because we would have been in the championship game and would have won to be undefeated so we would be number 1. Let me answer the question from my viewpoint for any of the teams represented here on Skybox. I believe they are all in BCS Conferences and therefore would have been in the championship game and would have won and would be BCS Champion. Teams that I am answering this for include, but may not be limited to, the following. If I missed any of our skybox teams let me kow. Notre Dame Tennessee Georgia S. Carolina Any other SEC team Ohio State Penn State Michigan Any other Big 10 team S. Cal Arizona Arizona State Washington Washington State Any other Pac 10 team Clemson Any other ACC team Nebraska Texas Texas A & M Any other Big 12 team Any Big East Team, although this one gives me gas However for the lessor conferences I have to say I don't think they should be champion just because they were undefeated. Why? Schedule strength mostly. It's a lot easier for Utah, Boise State, Hawaii, TCU and some others to be undefeated when they play a limited number of tough opponents. So that's my answer, and if you were really looking for a statistically significant question for a poll for instance you would need to tie the question down better. :twisted: :twisted:
not really. I can't think of an impartial source that hasn't stated, quite clearly, that Utah earned it and i haven't read anyone who has questioned their strength of schedule. Except for Gator fans.... This from an article in Orlando Utah, not Gators or Sooners, should be national champs
#71 and #57.... schedule rankings by Sagarin and CBS.....not my rankings.. Georgia, LSU, FSU and Bama.... All before the bowl/title game and all sure to be ranked in the final polls.... How did Utah do better?
I said final poll....they will be there.....with the possible exception of LSU maybe. You have to include a team that Fla did not beat if you want to just talk schedule toughness....Ole Miss. Those guys will be top 12 probably. Will all 4 Utah foes be there?
Come on Corey quit stretching the truth. You love to lay everything at the feet of Gator fans, but in this case your statement lacks credibility. First there are people here, like Terry, who is not a Gator fan who made several posts about the mid major teams, including Utah not having to play the same level schedule as the BCS teams. Stop with the denial and blaming Gator fans for everything you don't like. Seems MCG just posted some facts about the schedule, check them out. You asked me a question and I answered it. I also told you the truth that if you really wanted a survey you need to clean up your question. By the way there are obviously people besides Gator fans who don't have Utah ranked that high. They were not ranked above Oklahoma, Florida, Texas in any poll and even the computers didn't have them ranked on top. So cut the nonsense about Gator fans and talk facts. Facts are that most of the world, which yes includes Gator fans, do not have Utah as the top team. There is a vocal minority, it would have to be vocal since it includes Corey, that disagrees. And that is fine, just quit thinking that because it's your opinion that it is fact or agreed to by the majority.
ummm bill... You said that Dave posted some facts about the schedule, he provided his guestimate at what the polls will be, I provided a link to what they are. Since when did citing sources become stretching the truth? I thought you were an academic. He did ask the question about 'will utah's ranked opponents still be there?' and I'm going to step out on a ledge and guess... Yes they will. The only one of those teams for utah that lost is BYU and I can't imagine dropping a 10 win team out of the top 25... then again, I'm the one who doesn't believe in lineage and allegiance as proof of supremacy. What Dave's 'facts' did prove is that despite playing fewer ranked teams, Florida couldn't beat them all and Utah did.
I was referring to the schedule strength that MCG posted above, Sagarin and CBS. Those are factual. I am an academic, not that it means much, however I do know an inaccuracy and lack of logic when I see it. For instance. Seems Sagarin and CBS don't have their strength of schedule ranked very high and I hardly think they are Gator fans. I believe Terry made some remark here or another topic where he at least insinuated their schedule was not as tough as BCS teams, he's not a Gator fan. When you say "except for Gator fans" you are stretching the truth and you don't have to be an academic to understand that.
It's too bad the McArthur Bowl is now hooked in with BCS championship...in the old days they awarded some teams Nat'l Championships that didn't finish #1 in the AP and UPI polls. Notre Dame won a McArthur Bowl in 1964 inspite of losing the last game to USC and finishing 9-1. Gving Utah the McArthur Bowl wouldn't be as satisfying as be crowned AP National Champion, but it would have been nice. Terry.
Oh oh Corey, I just discovered two more Gator fans. The announcers for the Ball State and Tulsa game were discussing the situation with Utah, and agreed they should be in the discussion, but said that Texas and USC should be in the discussion also. But then they both agreed that Utah didn't have as tough a schedule. Geez those Gator fans must be everywhere. :twisted: :twisted: You haven't found an impartial source that doesn't agree with you? I thinkk that you haven't looked very far my friend. But tune in Friday morning for the polls and computer polls and see if they all agree with you. But of course those that don't won't be impartial will they?
You think Sagarin and CBS don't have a stake in this sytem? Come on now Bill. You're the first one to blame the computers for being flawed and now you, of all people, are holding out Sagarin as an impartial source. That's like saying the ridiculous computer poll at the Seatlle newspaper is an impartial source.. Do you guys remember that thing? It took Ty Willingham to make that thing stop ranking UW #1. If you will remember.. I was upset that we wound up with Boise State and TCU playing in the Poinsettia Bowl and the reasons for that were multiple.. First of all, it was one of those bowl games in which there isn't a winner. If Boise wins, they beat yet another non-BCS opponent so their unbeaten season is illegitimate. If TCU wins, it 'exposes' Boise State as a 'fraud' and the TCU win doesn't mean all that much because it came against a 'lowly WAC team' and not a 'real BCS conference foe.' I guess you didn't like that article from Orlando... I understand, you feel threatened. The status quo is coming undone slowly but surely and you feel that your Gators are under attack. You should know that they aren't.. It is the system that is coming under, justifiable, attack. Right now in this system, we got the proverbial black kids being forced to sit in the back of the bus and you're telling them to STFU and enjoy their comfy seat..You guys are acting like they should feel lucky to have the privilege to even ride with you. It is unsettling to say the least...
By the by Bill... You make my point... In your conference, doing that puts you in the title game (in a year in which there aren't 3 unbeatens as you stated). Doing those things in Utah's conference barely registers them on the radar screen. That's a shame. You can call that the 'reality of the game' but when the team at the top of their conference whips one of your top teams, and a team from the bottom of their conference beats a bottom-tier team from, your conference... your reality doesn't seem to have much substance. On the field at least.
Corey, That's a little bit overboard don't you think. I have another simile for you. Three teams start a race and there are 2 courses you can take to get to the finish line. One is very difficult with a lot of hurdles and a big hill at the end, the other is not as difficult but it has the same big hill at the end. If you take the not so difficult course you must pay a 10 second penalty. One team takes the not so difficult course and finishes 1st....by 9 seconds. The other two teams finish second and third in time but because they were on the more difficult course they come in first and second. Remember this is a game, I mean race, not civil rights!
kp, that's way to logical for Corey when he reaches this stage. Corey, you are amazing. You speak of facts and use words like everyone or everything you have read agrees with you. Then when someone points out where there is disagreement with you, like Sagarin and CBS then you decide in your infinite wisdom to just discount them. No I don't care for the computer polls, but when someone makes an absolute statement like you did then to point them as a counter point to your so called argument does not make me agree with them. It is just pointing out the fallacy of your statement. Which you then choose to not admit but to discount that opinion as not being worthy. And I don't have to be an academic to understand the weakness of that approach. As much as I love talking and debating with you I have to report for my first day back. I'll probably be so tired and mentally challenged at the end of my three hour tour that I will be incapable of keeping this up. Have a good day.
What is there about Sagarin's system that is not impartial? And what would be his "stake in this system"?
I've reached a stage? You really are full of yourself Bill. There's no stage reached here. I understand KP's point fully but it is not as on point as you might think. KP. I understand what you are saying but the comparison is not apt. The flaw is in your premise that any of the 3 chooses their path. That is simply not the case. In fact, in Utah's case, they chose a more difficult path and before they could even get on the course someone (DickRod) decided to make Utah's course a little less difficult. You may call it over the top, but what else do you call discriminating against someone based upon who they are and where they are from? Because that is exactly what is going on here.