Coronavirus information

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by WSU1996kesley, Mar 13, 2020.

  1. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    I did not vote for Trump in 2016 so trying to frame the argument as a member of Trumpworld inaccurately representing the position of you or “people like [you]” is not accurate.

    You have posted voluminous philippics on this board castigating Red State Repubs for what you perceive as their caviler response to Covid regulations yet engage in rhetorical contortions worthy of Houdini to defend DeBlasio.

    Again, this is the guy who ordered the police to break up small gatherings in the Hassidic community and threatened further punitive action against them on Twitter on the ground that it was scientifically established that such gatherings risked public health. It was this same “scientific fact“ of Covid transmission that caused this nation to shut down almost all business and social activity resulting in record unemployment and economic and personal hardship of enormous magnitude. But, when mass protests re Floyd broke out across the country, the scolds, such as DeBlasio, who castigated those who were “ignoring science“ and “risking the life of Grandma“ suddenly grew quiet about the spread of Covid and advanced the argument that the political goals advanced by the protests were more important than the dangers posed by a contagious virus that brought this country to its knees.

    So, formerly immutable, scientific concepts such as (a) what is an infectious health risk and (b) what behaviors should be avoided and, indeed, punished, to prevent the harm caused by the risk are now, in many parts of this country, a very flexible concept that minimizes scientific risk if the behavior advances political goals deemed laudable by those in charge. This is a complete and utter
    disaster that turns parts of government that should be bound to scientific objectivity into propaganda organs. That endangers our safety since more and more people, Dems and Repubs, will disregard governmental instructions re public health
    perceiving it as politically rather than scientifically motivated.

    DeBlasio’s restrictions re contact tracing are simply a clumsy, dishonest attempt to restrict scientific inquiry to advance his ideological goals. If Covid cases markedly spike in NYC in the near future, the first question you would ask is whether there has been any recent change in public behavior. Duh, the answer is ******* A Yes—tens of thousands of people have crammed like sardines into public streets daily for the last 10 days protesting Floyd’s death! It would seem imperative that you would ask anyone recently infected if they attended any protest given the fact that public gatherings had been BANNED due to the risk of virus contagion. Why would you forbid your tracers from asking this simple question. That answer is also simple—avoid having the protests being connected to the spike in cases.
     
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  2. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    I really don't see the point of connecting spikes of Covid to the protesters.
    To anyone with a brain it's as easy to see the transmission possibilities of street protesting as much as it is for Trump rallys and jam packed GOP conventions.
    It's utterly stupid in either case and in Trump's case since he could avoid placing so many thousands of people at risk it's downright criminal.
     
  3. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    I supported Ted Cruz in 2016. When he dropped out I switched my support to Trump for one reason; I thought his business experience and lack of political background would be a refreshing change to the typical politicians whose soul was bought and sold dozens of times over the course of their career. I had no misgivings as to his personal character; I knew he was sketchy. At that point in time we needed a business person who could not be bought. I had doubts about how well he could work with others as his background indicates he could not. Those fears have been realized. But on balance he was the right pick.

    What I did not anticipate was the blind, coordinated and well funded hatred for Trump that began the moment he won the nomination.

    His opponents fear his rallies and for good reason. They are the heartbeat of his campaign; the lifeblood. The biggest reason his numbers are down is that he has been basically secluded for four months. It has emboldened his opponents who have stepped up their hysterical attacks from all angles. The moment he starts campaigning again things will turn around fast.

    Thousands of people crammed together in Brooklyn celebrating Black trannies. Not a word of concern from the Press or Hollywood.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  4. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Basically secluded? He was front and center live daily for weeks at the start of the pandemic and began to rapidly lose weight because he couldn't get enough food in his mouth due to the rather large foot he had there every time he opened his mouth.
    I could never get past those character flaws.... the incessant need to divide the country by politics, the narcissism and the self-aggrandizement that never wanes.
     
  5. Scott88

    Scott88 Well-Known Member

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    Bob... I applaud the valiant attempt.
     
  6. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    "Why would you forbid your tracers from asking this simple question. That answer is also simple—avoid having the protests being connected to the spike in cases".

    Why would you "forbid" asking the minute numbers of people out of 10 million New Yorkers? Why is everything so damn political to the right? Oh... I forgot your illustrious leader is the divider.... so he leads the way in politicizing every aspect of American life.
     
  7. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Dave, I'm confused, you always seem to be so upset about any gathering spreading the disease...yet you seem to want to ignore any gathering whose politics you like. GOP convention, bad, people will get the sickness they deserve seems to be your message....protests are fine, leave those people alone. Is that right? You only want to contact trace people whose politics you don't agree with seems to be your message.
     
  8. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    In front of a hostile press who heckled him mercilessly and asked leading inane questions. Those were not campaign events. But since I have you attention, what qualities do you see in Joe Biden that will make him a good president?
     
  9. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    LMFAO, this coming from a guy who has established a homestead on this board for decades ranting non stop about Republicans. If we pulled all of the adversarial political posts written by the two of us, I suspect, and this is a really conservative estimate, that for every one hundred “Republicans are evil ******* bastards” posts of yours, there are 2 or 3 replies of mine. Obviously, attributes such as self awareness and introspection are not imbedded in your character.

    And regarding “my illustrious leader” go back and read my first sentence of my post. But, my request for you to do that probably reveals a mistake on my part in assuming you are arguing in good faith and not trolling.

    Lastly, are you seriously claiming the “minute” number of demonstrators justifies not asking a person if they recently participated in a public gathering. The whole purpose in contact tracing is an epidemiological bases inquiry to try and trace back the source of an infectious outbreak and then trace forward to try and break the infectious chain. A historical example of this was in Victorian England when a doctor mapped out where cholera victims lived and was able to deduce from mapping that the source was a public well. Only one well, Dave. Minute.

    Given how infectious Covid is, asking those recently infected if they attended a public gathering aids in trying to determine if outdoor gatherings pose risks comparable to indoor gatherings. Tens of thousands of people were involved in these gatherings. Studies have shown that 1 infected person can infect as many as 40 people. Thus, the numbers are not minute when considering the potential consequences of the spread of infection. Thousands of infected can turn into millions.To bar a tracer from asking this question is, as stated before, a perversion of a scientific model to obtain a politically approved result.
     
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  10. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    When government fails to apply Covid restrictions uniformly and the mayor and his family approves and even participates in mass gatherings like this:

    D0952C58-2C44-4C91-8F3F-3D5103A23FA2.jpeg

    But does this to prevent the gathering of playing children

    Normally law-abiding people get fed up with the hypocrisy

     
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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  11. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Bobda I thought this was pretty easy to understand:
    "for anyone with a brain it's as easy to see the transmission possibilities of street protesting as much as it is for Trump rallys and jam packed GOP conventions.
    It's utterly stupid in either case"

    Do I need to restate that differently?
     
  12. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    They did want to know if someone spent 10 minutes in close contact with someone which then the next question would be where? I suppose they could ask the additional questions of did they attend a protest.... why not ask that? I don't see protesting as a Democratic thing only to do but maybe that's how you are looking at it. Another division by politics I guess.
     
  13. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    Of course Dave. And when I post on (a) the need for government to apply laws re Covid restrictions neutrally and without political bias and (b) maintain that DeBlasio has clearly not done that and that his current instructions to his tracers are just another example of this, you invent my political alliance with Trump and whelp how the right “makes everything political”.

    I am mystified how asking for regulations be applied to everyone in the same manner is now right wing demogogary.
     
  14. WSU1996kesley

    WSU1996kesley Well-Known Member

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    Bobda, the usefulness of countless apolitical topics and discussions have been destroyed by rubber stamp's injection of political hate and derangement, yet this. LMAO Instead of ruining everyone's lives with karaoke the insincere, feigned shock troll needs to do stand-up!

    Bobda, Doc T, George...my reading comprehension and level of cognitive dissonance must be at a different level from rubber stamp's because I didn't see anywhere that you guys injected politics into it by pointing out that the protests were a Democrat(ic, sic) thing to do. Instead, what you wrote was contrasting the coverage of the several events, one of which was of a political rally by protests of which POLITICS was injected by the disparate coverage based on what team the covering agency was on. Further advancing the politics, rubber stamp then injects more politics rather than addressing the bias inherent in the media business model which has assigned his opinion and viewpoint. Yes, calling out something, according to rubber stamp, means you did it. A great trick by the media business which has labeled Trump as a hate monger divisionist all the while creating the division and hate.

    I don't know about you guys, but at one point I actually took rubber stamp at his word that he wanted to have an intelligent discussion. Unfortunately, the loudest one in the room is usually not the most sober, nor most intelligent, overcoming a lack of functional brain cells (either from genetics or alcohol) with volume. With this increasing volume, it is exceedingly clear that he is either an intentionally divisive troll, sowing discord for the pure elation of it or intentionally obtuse with no interest in challenging his world view assumptions for fear of ruining his long-held self-image of superiority over all the basest elements in society (=conservatives). There has not once been a fact-based argument in relation to what was said by any other distinguished member on this board. Every riposte has been a leftist talking point without addressing any of the verifiable information. Interpretation of provided information can be discussed, but that has never even been attempted, just posting articles and quotes of his favorite rubber stamp left-sourced hate cache. Rather than actually reading and interpreting the base, foundational information, the rubber stamp continues to post propaganda as if his thoughts are his own to give. An intelligent, respectful discussion for an understanding of another viewpoint is, sadly not possible with a piece of hive mind.

    I rather enjoy all of y'all's attempts, but see the rate of success of even creating a dim spark has been about the same as my many engagement attempts. I continue to munch on popcorn, enjoying the show, and have an unofficial scorecard of something in the neighborhood of universe to nil.
     
  15. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    What utter crap, Dave. In the quote you posted, the spokesman said that if the person interviewed was in close contact, they could “volunteer” the info of where the close contact took place. Since we apparently agree that mass gatherings pose a risk and since tracing is DESIGNED to track both the source of the possible infection and subsequent contacts, why would you BAN the questioner from asking the question if the interviewee engaged in a specific behavior that you acknowledge poses a severe risk of virus contagion.

    Well, if one supports mass gatherings only for certain political causes regardless of the risk involved and if the only mass gatherings just prior to a potential spike in cases involved those for approved causes, the best way to avoid bad publicity would be to skew the numbers by eliminating questions that might provide an answer you dislike.
     
  16. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    "addressing the bias inherent in the media business model"

    And what bias is that? Not sure what bias you are referring to..... is it by chance political?

    So you don't think Bobda is aiming to link my failure.... as he perceives it..... to disapprove of protesters as something political? Seriously.... I couldn't give a rats ass if protesters want to go out and endanger themselves and others by being in a large group except I think they are being stupid and thoughtless and I highly disapprove. Oh..... and that goes for white supremacists protesting in Lansing as well....
    But these are common citizens making a personal choice albeit an idiotic one.... not "Trump patriots" being exhorted by their preening full of himself president to come together in a large crowd in a very dangerous fashion.... against all medical advice to celebrate his greatness. That's even more stupid.
     
  17. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    Common citizens....you mean like the mayors, governors, senators, movie stars, and high profile journalists who have endorsed and joined the recent mass gatherings? Those common citizens?

    Again, the point I am making is simple. If you believe Covid regulations are necessary to protect the public, enforce the regulations in a neutral manner. Your response was to fabricate my supposed devotion to Trump, falsely accuse me of supporting the suppression of the first amendment right of freedom of assembly, and whelp about how I am engaged in the dark arts of right wing politicalization while, at the same time, doing polemical somersaults to defend a blue state mayor who offers a template in the Jacobin method of public health administration.
     
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  18. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know a damn thing about DeBlasio..... sorry if I gave the impression I was defending him. He may be a dirt bag for all I know.
    You guys love painting my picture in whatever shape fits the argument..... and as often as I do offer data and stats you reject what I give you or shoot the messenger.
    And part of that problem is neither side trusts where the other's data is coming from because everything is so biased and agenda driven that data is often skewed in one direction or another.
    It's laughable that the only good data is your own Kes.

    And you want to see blind rubber stamping? I haven't seen one comment or response from anyone here about Trump's stance on bringing so many people together for his rally and his GOP acceptance speech. When you look in the mirror ask yourself if this is really ok with you. I can't believe that it is but if it is then we are more divided than just politically.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  19. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    Oh you poor martyr. I will carefully look for your highly researched data that supports your claim that I embrace Trump as my “illustrious leader”, support the abridgment of freedom of assembly since I supposedly perceive protesting as a “Democratic thing to do”, and politicize everything.

    I am also sorry about interpreting your numerous posts defending DeBlasio’s contact tracing limitations as a defense of his administration and for not realizing that you “don’t know a damn thing about him”. I should have comprehended your ignorance of the subject matter simply by reading your various posts about the subject.
     
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  20. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Numerous defenses of DeBlasio? I had one post where I responded to your lure of do I approve of protestors assembling and that NYC wasn't asking about it and why not etc etc.
    I guess you reeled me in.... I shouldn't have answered that because as I say it's ridiculous that protestors take those kinds of risks upon themselves.... which I have said many times. They are cavalier in making those choices and it is extremely ill advised but the president of the United States isn't tweeting out how it's something these protestors should be doing vs. how he extols his supporters to come out en masse in a crowded arena and throw him their love in spite of the dangers of Covid 19.