So....the question is....how did The Bear treat one of his players who went out on a Friday night with the boys and had a few too many beers at the bonfire with the sorority girls? Actually Bear had to do nothing because I'll bet the local gendarmes would just take his keys and drive his car home for him once they discovered he was an Alabama football player. But that's the sign of the times these days and while I'm sure that was ok for most folks then now some of those same people would like to see Dunlap kicked of the team permanently for one DUI? You really think that is just? It's the repeat offenders that usually get and deserve that kind of punishment. Careful how you guys express your opinion here because I'll absolutely guarantee you that your favorite team will have a player get caught with a drinking offense within the next year or two at the most. I want to repeat here that it's not like Meyer has stepped in to see that Dunlap get's a light punishment from the state of Florida on this. Dunlap will get the same harsh treatment that every citizen would get and I am certain Meyer feels right about that. I think Dunlap's football partcipation penalties are getting morphed into the State's legal punishment of his DUI in this discussion.
Now that is discipline. I have not been able to find documentation but I will keep looking. General Neyland worked the same way. I am certain that you will find examples from most every university where the same type actions were taken... back then. It is a sign of the time that discipline is lacking... not the university in question. This is what I mean when I say things like: "The world is too gray and needs to trend back toward black and white."
Dave, We had a kid get a drinking offense... lost for the season. Got popped again at a party the next season... off the team and gone for good. Read that article and you tell me that Urban's approach is anywhere near as in-depth as the Bear's.
...hmmm.....that was the only trouble for the kid......nothing else before that? Wasn't this guy was it? "For Yeatman, this is his second run in with the law after his DUI in the spring" http://www.uhnd.com/blog/notre-dame-football/yeatman-golic-jr-arrested-underage-drinking/ OH....and good story on The Bear but now we are equating a first time DUI offender with a felony drug seller? As I stated before.....I would like to read a story about Bear busting the chops of his players who had a few too many beers. Let's talk apples to apples here.
Yeatman was an odd case. His DUI was for driving a golf cart under the influence and he was driving it on the sidewalk. But it was still a DUI, not quite the same as driving a car down the highway though. But he was put on probabtion with the caveat that if he didn't have any more problems for a year they would wipe it off his recort. Then he goes to that party that is mentioned in the article you linked and he got a MIP, he didn't blow as drunk and according to him he'd just arrived and had only consumed 1/2 a beer. But it was a probation violation and that was it for him. He was dismissed from the University, but could have reapplied the following fall providing he didn't have any more problems. Instead he transfered to Maryland and played on their Lacrosse team (which he also did at ND). But we did have a player who got a DUI when he was home on a bye week and that was the Driving a car while intoxicated not a golf cart. He was dismissed from the team and since it was his Sr. year that was the end of his career. He stayed and graduated though.
I wouldn't care if it were the best player on the Irish. If you are charged with DUI you are suspended pending your trial and outcome. If convicted, you are off the team. There are things that are bigger than this game and this is one of them.
I will say that I do think that in many cases ND's disciplanary actions are too much in the other direction. I don't have a problem with a DUI making you ineligible to participate for 1 year/the rest of the season. I don't think that is too draconian. But there are some other situations that the ND punishment didn't fit the crime IMHO.
Yes, Thank you for making my point. He was suspended for the DUI in a golf cart on campus. Please note the 'accuracy' in reporting by ESPN in the original article.. but also note, he was suspended the first time: Suspended Yeatman charged with DUI For his second offense, he was at a party that was busted by the notorious booze patrol in the area and cited for underage drinking... bye bye Yeatman. As the article you posted mentioned, Golic had no real playing time ahead of him so suspending him or punishing him was no big deal. However, another offense like that (which was minor in possession at a house part in which the cops kicked in the door and is a lot different than DUI) and I believe Mr Golic will wind up on the bad sad of the University and out the door. Your article proves my point. I believe we lost Michael Stonebreaker for an entire season (the equivalent at the time of your Spikes) . You can read a bit about him and two other players suspended for the 89 season in Ned Bolcar's bio here: http://www.blueandgold.com/content/?aid=1465 Also, how do you know the kid at Alabama was a felony drug dealer? And am I saying that a kid selling marijuana is less of a risk on society than a drunk behind the wheel? Absofrigginlutely.
That opens up a whole new debate Corey. The point is though that at the time a staid conservative like The Bear would have frowned seriously on a drug seller....as would the law in Alabama have also....whereas the DUI laws we had then and the way society looked at it were pretty lax at the time. I don't minimize it but you brought The Bear into the conversation with that article.
I only have one comment and it's to Corey. I did not in any way say the Oregon case was a DUI, I said that he was suspended for the season then allowed to do certain things and come back. So kindly don't put words in my mouth. I frankly at this point have pretty much given up on fining Notre Dame fans who can speak about anything that happens with Urban with any kind of objectivity. I thank goodness that some of you are not in control of the Gator program. This is the kind of one sided discussion I expected when I posted the topic, my only surprise is how long it took. Other than that I am at my daughters and grandkids house in Kissimmee and intend to enjoy myself and will withdraw myself from this discussion. I hope all of you enjoy Christmas as much as I intend to with my family.
Bill, There is only one difference in how you and I are looking at disciplinary actions. (no specific situations here, just disciplinary actions period) I have seen, first hand what happens to a team when those actions are loosened to the point of patting the player on the back and saying: "Please don't do that again." I does more harm than a lost game. It starts a cancer that spreads within the team. You are taking the Ostrich approach: Stick your head in the sand and go along with whatever the coach says. I used to be pretty close to that myself. I take the watch dog approach: Play devil's advocate and hold my coach accountable for actively trying to reduce the amount of distraction that these activities have on the team. Not short term (now) distractions, but long term (building for the future health of the team).
We all seem to be in strong support of DUI laws except when they are applied to one of our own. Then there are always these" extenuating" circumstances.
I don't think that exception applies to me George. Everyone here saw me calling for Colquitt to be removed from the team in Fulmer"s last year. When we had problems in the punting game, i wasn't saying that we need to bring him back off of suspension. I was pissed at Colquitt for hurting the team with his actions. I blamed the correct source of our problems. The team suffered. But they saw how the actions of one affected the team as a whole. That education may have been a life changing event for some of the young men on that team. For me, there is no gray area. If you drink and drive, you are guilty of attempted vehicular homicide... regardless of whether anyone was hurt or not... and I don't care what color you are wearing either.
Whoa whoa whoa ******** Dave... you brought the Bear into this conversation... not me. You said: I not only blocked your shot, but I took the ball down the floor..slam dunked on you and am currently hanging on the rim winking at your girl. It was you who tried to show that somehow Urban is better or different than the Bear at Alabama. I pointed out, quite clearly, that is not the case. Unless of course, you have some great Urban Meyer character building stories to share with us. George, I have no problem with DUI laws being applied to my guys...even when they are in golf carts. I was pointing toward the report on ESPN of him driving a car down the side walk (which you have to admit is a big difference).. but as for the punishment.. I have no issue. My issue was with his 2nd offense when the booze nazis in Indiana kicked in the doors of a college party and were dragging kids out by their collar... then hauling them off to jail.. You can get away with that stuff in Indiana where there are still enough folks sympathetic to the tee-totaling causes.. You do that just about anywhere else, and sooner or later a cop gets beat up or shot. It's stupid law.. but that's a different issue for a different day.. we have a long off-season (unfortunately)
Bill, Your genius plot worked out. You posted a topic.. knowing full well that soon enough Dave would make some inane argument or statement in favor of Urban or Florida...we would pounce on that exposing it for the ******** it is.. Then you get to declare predictable victory because we pounced on said claims of jackassery because we can't possibly be objective simply because we don't accept Dave's broad brush stroke about this 'not being like the Bear's days'.. Bravo sir... well played.
I think Dunlap missing THE most important game of the season, one of the most important games in Florida history, is pretty severe for his only offense ever while at UF. Had Colquitt been in trouble before his final indiscretion? It seems no one can acknowledge that it was this kid's first time offense and that it was quite a severe punishment......more severe than missing for example 8 games in the middle of the season.
if this guy is so valuable, as you have so clearly pointed out.... then there's no way you make the SECCG if he misses 8 games... no matter how bad your schedule is.
It's inane to you when the point made has merit. Again, his only offense while at Florida and he was suspended for a very tough game in which Florida uncharacteristically sucked on his side of the ball in his absence. I would rather he had missed those 8 games and we took our chances with him vs. Alabama than without him. It would sure make your's and Tom's argument not so "inane" if he had done something.....anything wrong before this judgement error. You guys are guilty of the very same thing you accuse me of except in reverse.....blind dislike of Urban and the Florida program and it shows mightily.
No, you said it wasn't like the old days when the Bear swept it under the rug for star football players.. I showed you, documented, proof that is bull. The Bear DID discipline star players. You can't see it. You won't see it. Your statement was flat out false. Your position is inane because it lacks substance, backing or whatever else that you want to call it. It's not blind hatred of Urban.. Its just a lack of submission to Urban that you can't stand. The guy just might be flawed (perhaps even deeply) which makes him human.. There's nothing wrong with that... except to you.
Hey I can accept that Mack Brown is flawed, he talks a good game about family, character, academics, but the actual result show that he really knows the most about putting together a winning football program that has never won few than 9 games in his tenure at Texas and more recently has never won fewer than 10 games. Has turned around the Big Game Bob dynamic and now owns Big Game Bob. Yet time and time again inspite of his talk about family, character, and academics his teams have problem kids and he finds a way to get them back on the field as soon as possible, only dumps them when they do something so stupid that even he can't rescue them....like armed robbery. And academics inspite of talking a good game for 10 years his teams have a hard time cracking 60% grad rate this last reporting period was 49% I think. But I still like Mack a lot, he's just practical. He knows that he has to win first and the alumni will forgive the rest. He's the perfect coach for Texas. Urban is the perfect coach for UF, and I'll bet he's a lot more like Mack than you Gators want to admit.