Executive compensation is something that has gone wayward for a long, long time in America. Many times a guy is an abject failure at one firm...gets his golden millions when he gets the boot and then hooks up with his college buddy who also happens to head up the board search at another firm for a new CEO. Somehow the guy gets this second chance at failure and at getting his own windfall a second time at this new firm. Anyway....in various ways this kind of crap goes on all the time in Corporate America while the rest of us just stand by and watch. Then you have the sordid story of the recent Wall Street catastrophe and the mismanagement by many different CEOs and other executives who have most likely profited enormously by all of the shenanigans. And yet most Americans are just fixated on the Big Three.....probably because most Americans just don't have a clue what really is happening on Wall Street.
Dave, I am sorry that your world has crumbled around you. Mine could be doing the same within the next two years if there is no sign of turnaround. I wish there were something we could influence that could help your situation. However, this is bigger than anything we can influence. With that said, you need to chill before it affects your health. Worry about that which you can change. If you can't change it, let it go.
....and most Americans don't pretend that they do. You, however, don't have a clue either, yet continue to fantasize that you do......
True BT...my knowledge of Wall Street doesn't equate to yours by far. But from what I have heard from you I certainly do not rest easier that we are all in good hands there and we need to let " financial market forces and credit markets" work their way through 700 billion while the rest of us are going jobless. Your personal hardline take on everything just doesn't create a lot of trust for me that there are mostly good people pulling the strings and that they have anybody's best interest at heart other than their own greedy little selves.. :roll:
Interesting links for 2007 executive compensation: I can't see where under performing auto CEOs get any more than under performing Wall Streeters: http://www.usatoday.com/money/graphics/ceo-comp/flash.htm
.....it ain't perfect, but it is, in fact, the best economic system the world has ever devised, creating more jobs, more wealth, and more innovation than any system in the history of the world. That ain't too bad......I say let it work.
Answer me this question.....over the course of your lifetime, how would you rate "Wall Street" on their world standing and their ability to compete against their major competitors from around the globe? btw, who and what is this creature you refer to as Wall Street and blame for all worldly ills?
FWIW, I'm not at all excited about the Big Bailout of the banks...just hoping that it works...and I'm not opposed to the Little Bailout of the Big 3...if it has a chance of allowing them to recover. But to me (oversimplifying things as is my habit), it boils down to one thing only...right now the Big 3 are losing money on every car they build. Can they build a car and sell it to the consumer at a profit?...if not, no bailout or easy credit will help them stay afloat. All this talk about tight credit and CEO bonuses and requirements by the feds to make certain kinds of cars...none of it matters except can we manufacture cars and sell them for a profit? What is the plan that will allow them to do so?
Lots of straight talk in this article: http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Money/Story/STIStory_317754.html "The credit squeeze has also had a major impact: about 40 per cent of prospective car buyers who used to be able to get low-cost loans are now squeezed out because their credit, while good, is not good enough. 'There has to be some incentive for getting people out to shop and it's not going to be just credit or incentives,' Mr Toprak said in a telephone interview, adding that the government should develop a plan to boost demand. 'If they let the market handle this crisis, the recovery will take much longer and will come at the expense of the domestics."
I call this a cheap shot. First of all, when built the course was intended to provide a number of benefits to the UAW including access for low priced greens fees for the thousands of retired UAW members who have moved to the upper part of this state. Second to call this a "lake side" resort is a joke. Anyone who knows this state can tell you that there are so many lakes in the northern part of the state that it's difficult to buy a large piece of property that isn't "lake side." Lastly, it's losing money. No freakin surprise. That golf course like others in this state are struggling because of the economy especually the ailing auto industry. It's another example of how the auto industry isn't just an isolated entity but actually has an infulence on almost every facet of the area's economy. Fox should also do a report on how the value of the union headquarters has dropped and it too is a poor investment. Of course all property values here have dropped off the table but just pointing out the UAW building value would be another cheap shot. I'm disgusted at reading all these comments by folks who live in states that for decades have been sucking billions of federal dollars for subsidies for sugar, rice and peanuts and who almost every year have to go crawling to the government for help after another devastating hurricane ranting about government assistance to an industry in the industrial belt. It's total hypocritical ********.
Thanks for some needed perspective Gipper. Unfortunately there are way too many people that just love to get on the "hatin the sorry UAW" bandwagon to accept any real perspective on the reality of what has happened in Detroit but in other areas of the country as well. Like BT says...."it ain't perfect" and everyone here acknowledges that fact and that big mistakes were made. People need to understand that a hardline approach by management to ward off the union 25 years ago.....while in retrospect would have been much better in the long run would have come at a tremendous price at the time and it's easy to see why no one in auto executive circles took the lead on that kind of anti-union action when they could manage to get by otherwise and show profits to the people that always count these days...the stockholders. American business decision makers have become so strangled by their do or die loyalty to the stockholders that taking visionary actions that hurt the bottom line in the short term is almost unheard of and would get any profit minding executive kicked right out the door. It's a lousy climate for making good sound but painful, long term business decisions and that mentality if it continues will keep our economy in ruins IMHO.
Nice, Gip. If you should decide to run for governor of Michigan, and if I ever move to Michigan, you would have my vote. This is where I part ways with the conservative mindset. I'm not a UAW fan by any stretch, but I believe we must look at the big picture when thinking about how necessary it is for the economy to return the Big 3 to viability, even if it takes government assistance. If you want to talk about stupidity and bad judgement, let's have a conversation about the mindset of the banking community. I've gone over this road with BT in the past, and he knows how I feel. IMO, it's a tie between the bankers and the management of the auto companies. Take your pick.
I will qualify my "hatred" of the union(s). In 1978, I worked for Firestone Tire and Rubber. We built semi-tractor/trailer tires and had nothing to do with the Firestone car tires that had issues back then. We were a non-union plant in Lavergne, Tennessee. 18 months after I arrived, two people with extreme attendance issues were fired. These two people had been union activists. They went to the URW and the union increased efforts to penetrate the plant. They drummed up support within the working population and finally had enough supporters to demand a vote. The union was voted in by one of the slimmest margins in URW history. Within two weeks, we were on strike. That strike lasted for five months with us receiving $100 per week strike benefits. After five months, the union got the two idiots' jobs back and the striking population settled for less benefits than we had before the union came in. Three weeks after the strike was over, Firestone announced: "Due to the loss of contracts that were cancelled during the strike, 23% of the employees would be receiving notices of lay off and the plant would be eliminating 24/7 operation." Two weeks after that notice, I was out of a job. We had a good thing going. At that time in my life, being 20 years old with no degree, I had a well paying job that I liked. The union ended that for me. Yes, I despise unions. They had a place and were useful when the employers were the bad guys. In my opinion, the unions are no longer necessary and are a plague on the modern factory worker. Without them, things could reverse and in the next 20 years, they could become necessary again. But now, there is no reason that I can see for these parasites on the US economy.
Tom...I'm certainly not defending union actions by any means. I am defending to an extent, the failure of auto company management to rid themselves of the union problem 25-30 years ago because of the extreme financial pressure it would have placed on the companies. I am quite sure many automotive leaders have seen the writing on the wall for decades but in the face of angry investors none have pulled the trigger on the union because they would have been fried by those investors after the ugly losses ensued in a big union battle.
My understanding (limited) is that the UAW has protection under federal law to be the ONLY union for all of the auto makers... Therefore there was no competition...it was entirely a monopoly...when the UAW negotiated with Ford, they didn't have to worry about competition from a different union for GM or Chrysler...they held all of their feet to the fire at the same time...if they achieved outrageous demands from one, the others had to follow suit. It worked out fine for them for a while, but now all of a sudden they have competition.
Yes you are. We continue to dance around the 800lb gorilla in the room and at some point in time we're going to have to take it on. The longer it is around, the larger it grows. The longer we continue to look toward the big picture, the larger it grows. The longer we continue to make Congress, national disasters, environtrash issus and red herring safety issues the center of debate... the larger the gorilla grows. For the love of Pam Anderson's hooters, while we (as a nation and on the board here) are all at each other's throats over the issue of exactly who needs to bail out what, and exactly how far we're all going to have to tighten the belt.. we have the UAW making public announcements that they will not budge one single inch on any wage issues. Even when Bush comes through with bailout money, the UAW spits in the President's face... $27-Million UAW-Owned Country Club Includes Golf Course, Condos, Swimming Pools From the above article: I eagerly anticipate the lowered green fees for Hurricane Katrina survivors....
I don't know why you are getting that from my message that their problem began eons ago and now we are trying to right the mess in a weakened economy. Their wages are about the same as non-union workers down south and they have given up bennies already. That said...the UAW must give up more....or else....as W put it recently. I agree.....they must. My brother-n-law's retired 70 year old uncle....a real nice guy and a former design engineer at GM just had his health insurance canceled while he was in the hospital with a life threatening breathing disorder....that he probably got from working with car blueprints for years on end. People are making huge sacrifices in Michigan....but no one gives a crap about that.
I have a slight advantage here. Unlike some posters and the writers of these "articles" I've actually been to Black Lake and played the course. First of all it is not a "country club." It's a conference center which hosts meetings for various groups. It has places to stay, meeting facilities, and a golf course. I guess if you just take information off web sites you can make assumptions but actually going to the location you're writing about is much better for learning the truth. BTW, I don't think much about the course no matter how many positive reviews it gets.
It was ranked something like 39th in the top 100 public golf courses. I guess it's all a matter of personal preference
Yeah...why don't we just let these dinosaur auto companies of ours just die since the Japanese do things sooooo much better.... :lol: :roll: http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/international/toyota_factory_halt.reut/index.htm?postversion=2009010607