Terry, Don't forget the golf... Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail Bill, I am much happier here in Florence than I was in Decatur... and I live in a very pro-Democrat area 1,800 jobs coming to the Shoals with 1 employer
Corey.....no clinging for me. My job was enjoyable....paid well....and my wife's family is from this area. However...she has wanted to get out of Dodge ( no pun intended ) for a few years and now she may just get her wish as I see nothing holding me here. The Sunshine State beckons me home. 8)
....and here is why I have grown oh so tired of worrying about this **** and why it isn't likely to go away soon: http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/19/news/companies/autos_future/index.htm?postversion=2008121917 I just hope it looks bright around here for a few months this spring and summer so I can sell my house.....
Dude, I have no words except that you should totally claim that pun about Dodge... the bailout will fail. At this point in time, I'm just interested in saving families like yours. The union cares of only itself...the automakers get their money and run... Refer to my junkie reference from a few months back... It's spot on.
Bill, I wish I could make some informed remarks on executive salaries -v- the rest of the world, but I can't.....and neither can anybody else with any degree of accuracy or factual basis except the foreign companies themselves.....why????? The disclosure requirements in the rest of the world are nowhere near up to our standards....Germans, Japanese among others are not required to disclose executive salaries so the only data you'll ever see is self-reported. Not that I'm the least bit skeptical about that which is self-reported, but suffice to say they would not self-report ANYTHING that is not in their self-interest. About executive compensation in general.....in corporate America, the VAST majority of executive compensation is at risk in the form of incentive based awards either cash, stock or stock options. For example, take Rick Waggoner, GM's CEO.....as you all know I'm am not a big fan of Ricks. That said, his reported compensation package last year of some $14+ million was comprised of the following.....$1.6 salary, $1.7 cash bonus based upon the company achieving some pre-defined performance metric and the rest in stock or other equity-based awards. That amounts to 10% certain and earned, 90% at risk based upon the performance of the company and value created for the company's owners. I have no problem with that.....if a mgt teams generates wealth for its owners, it should be rewarded. If it does not, as in this case, they should not. let's break down the acual compensation further....of the $14.4 million number, poor Rick got $11.1 of that in stock or stock-based form valued at the time of the grant back late 06/early 07. GM stock was selling for roughly $30 at the time of the grant......today it sells for $4/share making poor Rick's compensation value today $1.5 or only 13% or it's value as reported.....it would be fair to say that poor Rick and his mgt team have taken a huge hit and they should. Now if the UAW really wants to b!tch, let them put 90% of labor compensation at risk..... About the jets....I can conceive of no CEO in charge of a company with over 250,000 employees with operations in dozens of countries and every continent on the planet that can meet the people he needs to meet, be where he needs to be when he needs to be there and do the things he is tasked to do in a timely, efficient and effective manner without a private jet at the disposal of he and his mgt team. At that level, a private jet is not a luxury, it is a necessity.
Amen to that. The whole flap over that was ludicrous and smacked of showboating. I guess no one asked Wall Street execs to rid themselves of their private transportation eh? .
nor should they have, because it would be equally ludicrous..... .....as are the comparisons between Detroit's grovelling and the "Wall Street Bailout"......there is no comparison. The differences are so stark and dramatic on so many different levels I don't even want to begin.....so I won't.
I have a question for you BT....in fact if you have a real answer how about scheduling yourself a hearing on Capitol Hill so you can explain it to the rest of us. Where is the damned money and why aren't the banks infusing it into the economy?
We all met and we've decided that the great unwashed is unworthy of a bounty so vast so we're going to keep it in our vaults, fuel our jets for transport to our tropical islands where we enjoy our private beaches, golf courses, women, Cuban cigars and the finest single malts amongst the ridiculous luxury of our mahogany-lined gaming rooms. How's the weather? 8)
In fact, I just read a rather flip comment from the CEO of Chase who said that the Bank will not comment on what they did with their $25,000,000,000 taxpayer gift. How nice.
And now this just in from CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/22/bailout.accountability/index.html Oh yeah...I feel a lot better now... What a load of crap that they hand to these guys hundreds of billions without an ounce of accountability and yet if the auto makers don't "get it right" by March they will be in some hellish hot water and by golly they won't get anymore than that 13.4 billion they already got. Are all of you OK with this? What in the hell is going on with this country?
When you last showered, where did the hot water come from? Did it come from that part of the tank that remained after you finished your previous shower or did it come from that part of the tank that was only recently warmed? Money too is fungible. Did they make loans with old money or new money? Were the losses from people unable or unwilling to pay back the money they borrowed absorbed from old capital, new capital or cash from operations? Where did the money come from that funded the contributions to underprivileged childrens groups in Detroit? How does one answer such a question? That is what is being asked of the bankers....that said, it will be a similar PR faux pas for them not unlike the private jet issue from the Detroit-based domestic auto makers. I saw Jaime Dimon interviewed and he was quite specific about recent initiatives JPM has funded.....and let's be very clear, the "taxpayer gift" did not come as a result of the bankers begging congress for money, in fact it was not voluntary at all.....it was crammed down their collective throats in spite of their protests. The bankers in the room with Paulsen were steadfastly against the Tarp cram down looking rather to pursue solutions available to them - unlike Detroit - in the private sector and for those to whom capital investment was not available, they ceased to exist - ala Lehman Bros or arranged marriages ala Merrill, Bear Stearns, Wachovia, National City, etc, etc.....Secretary Paulsen made it quite clear that it was not an optional program.....if one does want to engage in a compare and contrast to the Detroit situation, you can take it from there...
While you make some interesting points I think the private jet issue pales considerably when compared to the 350 billion dollar question of where the money went.
The money went where money goes....the PR issue is that the bankers were not prepared to provide a politically palatable answer to a question impossible to answer on a factual basis that was obvious and as predictable as the sunrise.....similar to the carmakers begging for money to stay afloat whilst the three of them flew to the same meeting in Washington - in their private jets - separately. As the car makers improved their play in round 2 - driving - in hybrids no less, the message coming from the bankers will soon be much improved....
Well let's hope so BT because we are talking about sums of money already doled out them that is 28 times that given to those no count, lousy automakers from Detroit.
.....and with an expected return infinitely superior to that we should expect back from the black hole of investment capital that the Detroit-based auto makers and their UAW masters have become.....the relative merits of the investments between the two are not remotely comparable by any rational measure.
Terry does make a strong point. The bailout money of one has an expected return on investment that is good for the economy and industry in the long term. The bailout money for the other is essentially like lighting it on fire. While it does keep families afloat, the industry has proven time and time again that it will just flush the opportunity right down the drain. I hope I am wrong..but I really doubt that I am.
Ok...so let's see that return take shape in the manner for which it was intended. It's been three months and still no movement in the lending arena which dooms auto makers no matter how much bail out money you give them.. Even Toyota reports a 1.7 billion dollar operating loss....a loss ratio that would doom them to bankruptcy as well eventually if they can't sell cars. They all sell cars for revenue by the way......in case anyone forgot that little bit of trivia. And 95% of car buyers probably do not have cash with which to purchase a vehicle and it sure as hell does not reside in anyone's home equity. But then..... a lot of Americans just cannot grab this fact of the need to sell cars amazingly enough, and are seemingly quite content with the knowledge that the financial system has their bailout money....somewhere...and by gosh they will report on what they are doing with it sooner or later.
Is it your position that the banks - all 8,000 or so in this country - are hoarding the money and intentionally not making loans to credit-worthy customers? If so, that's an absurd notion. Banks make money by lending money to credit worthy customers. It would be the equivalent of saying that the autos would not sell a car to a qualified buyer who wants to make a purchase.....which is absurd.
Credit minimum scores for auto and home loans went up three months ago....to above 700 or mostly higher. At 750 probably only 20% of Americans would qualify for a loan: http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/personal-finance/on-topic/debt/new--credit-scores-rise/ Dealers all over the country have buyers they say would normally be credit worthy and now are not. Your position....their position. Your position isn't doing a damned thing for anyone....except for those hoarding the found money.