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Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by JO'Co, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    What a great week you're having with your grandson, Jim. Too bad Corey can't be there. Maybe next time.
     
  2. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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    :D
    re: Spahn and Marichal

    I saw both of them too a long time ago. I saw Spahn vs. Koufax at the Coliseum in 1958. Those were probably the two greatest lefties of all time, with the possible exceptions of Lefty Grove and Whitey Ford; who I also saw pitch against the Angels at Dodger Stadium before the "Big A" was built. I saw Marichal vs. Don Drysdale at Dodger Stadium in a matchup of two of the nastiest right-handers ever. Both men took each pitch personally...
     
  3. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    How do you rate Steve Carlton among lefties.
     
  4. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    Carlton, Spahn, Koufax, Grove, and Ford. Take your pick. The 5 greatest in no particular order, IMO.
     
  5. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Nolan Ryan, Catfish Hunter, Don Sutton, Early Wynn, Bob Gibson would like a word with you Sid! :)
     
  6. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    Terry, we're talking about lefties only. Lefties Rule!!!! :lol:
     
  7. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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    :idea:

    Sid has the five greatest lefties ever. There's really no debate about it. I saw all of them except Lefty Grove who retired before I was born. Based on what I saw with my own eyes, and what I know about Grove, I would rate them this way:
    1. Warren Spahn
    2. Sandy Koufax
    3. Lefty Grove
    4. Whitey Ford
    5. Lefty Carlton

    Some info:
    - Warren Spahn broke into MLB at age 20 in 1942. World War II took him off to combat in Europe after that. He missed all of 1943, 1944, and 1945 and didn't return to the Braves regular rotation until 1947. ("Spahn and Sain, then pray for rain.") He was wounded in the fight for the bridge at Remagen.
    http://www.baseballinwartime.com/player_biographies/spahn_warren.htm

    How many more games would Spahn have won if he hadn't left MLB for WWII? As it is, he is the winningest left-handed pitcher of all-time, and he has the 6th most victories overall (363), behind Cy Young (511) and Walter Johnson (417) and three other righties. BTW- Cy Young won his first 108 games pitching at the pre-1893 distance of 48 feet, which is close to Little League distance with no mound. A good case can be made that Spahn was the greatest ever...period. He certainly was my hero. He was the guy on the box of Wheaties and I wanted to be just like him...

    - Koufax retired at age 31, because of an arthritic elbow and a finger that kept turning black when he pitched, because of circulation issues. Both problems are routinely diagnosed and fixed in modern baseball. It's reasonable to assume that he would have pitched at least five more years if that technology had been available in 1966...

    - Both Lefty Grove and Steve Carlton had terrible tempers and few friends. Both tore up locker-rooms and smashed water coolers and both were feared as genuinely crazy people who could propel a baseball at near 100mph.
    It's hard to judge Carlton, because some of the teams he pitched for were absolutely horrible. (Like Walter Johnson and Nolan Ryan.) In 1972, the Philadelphia Phillies were one of the worst teams in baseball history. They only won 59 games all year......Carlton won 27 of them...with an ERA of 1.97 and 310 strikeouts. If he had been pitching for the Reds that year, he might have won 35-40!
     
  8. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff, Jim. Thanks. Spahn was my favorite pitcher when I was a kid.
     
  9. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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    Here is Manito talking about a game I mentioned in a post above:
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/251lZ-Yh4xU?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0"></iframe>

    Here is Spahn in action. Note the perfect form. Koufax is the only other pitcher who had perfect form and balance. Note also that Spahn was the second greatest hitting pitcher of all-time, after Babe Ruth...
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gIZpWB256e4?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0"></iframe>

    On a scale of one to ten...Spahn was an "Oh my God!"
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/l5q7q2VyVKI?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0"></iframe>
     
  10. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    More great stuff. As a lefty, I imitated his pitching style in Little League and beyond. There were only two things different between Spahn and me....velocity and control. :lol:
     
  11. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Sphan and Sain and pray for rain....how good was Sain?
     
  12. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Kiss Kams should be banned IMHO. 8)

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    yeah, those guys were great but this pitcher gets the top spot in my fantasy Hall of Fame:



    [​IMG]
     
  14. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    LOl...she even made a good throw to the catcher! :)
     
  15. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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    :D
    re: Kiss Kam

    ROTFLMAO!

    re: gymnast

    :shock: Holy cow!

    re: Johnny Sain

    Johnny Sain was one of the greatest pitchers in history. He was another guy who lost his most productive baseball years while serving in the military during WWII. When he finally returned, he won 20 or more games four times and was the runner-up for NL MVP in 1948. When his playing days were over, he became a legendary pitching coach was much sought after by most MLB teams. In Jim Bouton's book Ball Four he talks about how Sain knew more about pitching than any other coach he ever had...
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sainjo01.shtml