:arrow: Furthermore... - Brock Stuart was sent back down to the minors after the game. That's the second time this season that the team sent a pitcher back down with a 0.00 ERA. The other was Josh Fields... - Justin Turner's hitting streak ended last night at 14 games. He batted .510 over that time period as his BA rose to .399... - Kenley Jansen has still not walked a batter this season... - Alex Wood is 7-0 with an ERA of 1.90...
The Mets are a joke. They're easily the worst team we've seen out here all year. Their starting pitchers are a bunch of kids tossing batting practice who can't get out of the first inning. They're not just losing these games, they're being blown out while most of the Dodger fans are still on the freeway trying to get into the parking lot. The Mets are desperate to change this scenario and the easiest way to do that in baseball is to start a fight. Last night, they tried to start something with Puig, which is always the easiest way to start a fight with the Dodgers. Yasiel parked a Little League slider up in the pavilion and went into his Cadillac trot, which caused every Met infielder to make remarks to him as he passed by. Now I admit that he did rub it in just a tad. Replays timed his stroll from home to first base at eleven seconds.......which is a tad on the slow side; and he did almost stop between 1st and 2nd to drop an "F" bomb on the 1st baseman....and he dropped another one on the catcher as he crossed home plate, but overall, it was just hard ball. Between innings, the Mets Cuban players had a talk with him, and he just laughed at them. If he hits another one today, he'll probably go slower. In any language, he's a funny guy... This was a non-incident. The Mets were throwing at his head in this series BEFORE last night, but he's used to this treatment by opposing teams. Puig is one of the biggest reasons this current Dodger streak is nearing historic proportions with comparisons to the 1906 Cubs. Since Bellinger and Taylor joined the club, the lineup is stacked top-to-bottom, with guys like Puig and Joc Peterson batting 7th and 8th. Do they really want to give free bases to the bottom of the lineup? If they do, what happens when they get to 2,3,4 (Seager, Turner and Bellinger?) Mets manager Terry Collins said it best after the game. "I don't care about some guy running the bases...we have bigger problems than that."
In the category of I can't believe they used to be able to do this....esp given that the Astros currently hope their starter can make it at least to the 5th inning! I found this blog where the guy is documenting pitchers who not only go 9 innings but extra innings!! Bert Bleyleven had 4 in a row and won all 4!! 1-0 how's that! Gaylord Perry is the modern king, but with his junk his arm didn't get really warm till the late innnings! https://prestonjg.wordpress.com/2016/03/19/update-pitchers-who-threw-the-most-extra-inning-games/
:idea: All of these modern pitchers are taken out around 100 pitches. Vin Scully used to tell the story of a game between Nolan Ryan and Juan Marichal. BOTH pitchers threw over 250 pitches in that game...
8) .................Bibens-Dirkx...........? - BTW.... The winningest pitcher in the American League is Jason Vargas of the Royals. He's a home town hero here: born and raised in Apple Valley, CA and a graduate of Apple Valley H.S. a few blocks from my house. Our local paper now follows Kansas City like the Dodgers or Angels, because of him... .......I see that the Mets are doing the Lord's work up in Frisco after they were laughed out of town here...
JO'Co, I had a big argument with my buddy about pitch counts (neither of us ever wins or gives in)... You know more beisbol than I ever could consider learning...but here is my take. There were some guys with iron arms back in the day...but I think that most of the pitchers paced themselves throughout the game and tried to go long...and relievers were sent in only when they faltered. Now they are coaching pitchers to pretty much go all out...give us 6 to 7 innings...throw hard...and then we'll send the relief staff in and have them throw their arms out. (usually for an inning or maybe two per pitcher.) If you fall apart early...we'll send in a long reliever...if we have or can find one. :shock: It's a new world and a new philosophy...it just bugged me because my buddy was trying to imply that current starters are sissies.
Stu, I'll throw in my penny's worth. Your friend is making what I call a "testosterone-based" argument. If you stood next to the pitchers of today and beheld their height and girth, I don't think you'd want to call them sissies. I don't believe the pitchers of yesteryear paced themselves in terms of trying to save their arms. Nor do I believe the pitchers of today are softer than their predecessors. In my opinion, it's a change in philosophy that evolved in the middle and latter parts of the last century. I also believe that the evolution of the game at the youth and HS levels has created the necessity of the current practice of 100 pitches for starters + middle distance relief specialists + setup men + closers. Years ago, kids and high schoolers didn't play baseball year-round. Also, not many dads in our parents' generation and earlier allowed kids to throw curve balls at an early age. All this changed with the practice of year-round involvement in a single sport and in some cases ambitious dads/coaches who are ignorant of the long-term risk of not protecting young arms. IMO it's why we see promising young pro pitchers develop early arm problems requiring Tommy John surgery (As a doctor, you can appreciate the advances of modern medicine in this regard). Prime examples of what I'm describing are Mark Prior, formerly of the Cubs, and Stephen Strasburg, currently of the Washington Nationals. Both were can't-miss MLB prospect out of college, and both had early arm issues which hindered their careers, Prior's to a much greater extent than Strasburg. Trying to avoid this kind of situation likely is IMO the major reason for pitch counts, hence the need for middle relievers and setup men. Closers IMO are a much more natural addition to the game regardless of the pitch count issue. I could go on re: pitchers whose careers were cut short by arm issues, but you get the picture. For me, the bottom line is that the game has evolved to this point for reasons mentioned above and likely never will return to the days of yore. BUT today's pitchers definitely are not sissies.
Hi Sid, Read some stuff where many arm experts don't feel that it's necessarily the curve ball too young causing problems, though that has been conventional wisdom. I got no expertise in that so I'm not arguing your point. Heard Greg Swindell (yesterday in fact) interviewed...he never had arm problems until AFTER his career (several surgeries since). His take wasn't so much pitch count or curve balls but that kids are playing too much baseball. Like all sports (we've discussed this here) it's year round anymore...kids don't get exposed to the variety of sports and games that we did because they are pigeon holed so early...especially the good ones.
Stu, I also have read that some arm experts don't believe that throwing curve balls at young ages is the culprit. I certainly am not an expert, so I can't dispute their opinions. I'm just going on conventional wisdom. Interesting about Greg Swindell. I certainly agree with his opinion that kids are playing too much baseball at a young age. As an aside, a book I have describes a HOF pitcher from the late 1800s, Charley "Old Hoss" Radbourn. He had a colorful career, as did many players in those years, but what is significant is the 1884 season when he won 60 games for the Providence Grays and pitched almost every game down the stretch until his team was so far ahead of the 2nd place team that he "...did take a day off now and then". His arm was so damaged that he never again reached the level of ability that allowed him to win 167 games in his first four years. He won 144 games the next 6 seasons until his arm finally gave out completely in 1891. P.S. The mound was moved back to 60'6" in 1893. Until then, the distance was 45' followed by 50', which explains why it was not uncommon for pitchers to post 30+ and 40+-win seasons.
A buddy of mine was telling me about slo pitch softball (he is head of a regional umpires association and knows more sports than I ever will...he's also a Notre Dame grad). I think he refs baseball, basketball, and volleyball as well. Apparently everybody is affixed by the long ball...equipment, attitudes, etc...they just wanna go up and swing for the fences. Big strong guys. Most leagues have altered the rules to keep the score reasonable (stuff like starting with one strike). To protect the pitcher they (pitchers) are required to wear helmets and face guards. They moved the mound back as far as they can and still provide a slo pitch arc....any farther back you'd have to go to fast pitch. There was other stuff but I can't remember.
Years ago when I played slo pitch softball, one guy in the league was as big as a college OT. He was a guaranteed HR every time he came up. When there were runners on base, we would walk him as a defensive maneuver. Many traveling teams these days stack their lineups with guys like that. Whereas pitching "killed" pro fast pitch softball (per an old friend, now deceased, who had played pro fast pitch), big "bubba" hitters are inflating scores in slo pitch. Perhaps the answer is to play slo pitch on MLB-sized fields.
:idea: Here is info for Stu, with a player to watch. One of my granddaughters (Jessica) has a best friend who's fiance is a minor league player for the Cleveland Indians. His name is Justin Garza... http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=621057#/career/R/pitching/2017/ALL
:idea: re: pitch counts and arm problems We know a LOT more about this stuff now than when I was playing. Here is what I think I know: 1. Curve balls don't cause elbow problems if they're thrown correctly. You can throw them all you want. 2. SLIDERS cause elbow problems. This has been known for a long time. Sliders are thrown as hard as fastballs and this eats up a lot of elbows. The Dodgers never allowed any of their pitchers, not even Koufax or Drysdale, to throw sliders in the old days. Tommy John surgery has lessened this concern. 3. I heard a lecture, with films, many years ago on this subject by Dr. Steve Bast. He had been an all-world QB who led Damien HS to a CIF title in the early 1980's, then pitched for the Boston Red Sox, before becoming a medical surgeon specializing in sports injuries. The film he showed us were a series of tests that he ran on his volunteer subject Orel Hershiser. Hershiser was wearing only his gym shorts, hat, glove, and cleats. The rest of him was wired up to measure the stress on his muscles, tendons and bones. Other tests were run on cadavers for this project. Here were the results of Dr. Bast's experiments: - There should be pitch limits on pitchers in each age group. - 75 pitches max for 14 and under. - 100 max for high school. - 125 max for adults. Pitches thrown over 100mph will ruin an arm over time, because the muscles are no longer being used as much as the tendons at those speeds. Pitchers should NOT pitch year-round. They should rest for several months each year, with only light tossing twice a week. re: Old Hoss Radbourn Radbourn threw most of his pitches underhand like a softball player. Even then, his wife had to rub his arm for hours before each appearance. She also kept him sober. He was a saloon owner...
The Dodgers laughed the Rockies out of town, leaving the last pitcher in tears after he gave up five runs on four wild pitches. Colorado couldn't handle the pressure of playing a big-time series. They're not ready for prime time. re: Bellinger aka "Cody Pop" aka "Belly Bombs" aka "Commander Cody" crushed two more HRs today. This breaks the team record for multiple HR games by a rookie at six. The all-time record is seven by Mark McGuire. BTW- the team was 9-11 when Bellinger joined the team. Since then, they're 41-15. re: injuries It's hard to tell who is really injured or not, because the Dodgers use the new 10 Day DL to rest players and make roster moves. Neither Seager or Puig played today. The Dodgers are resting players even against their division rivals...
Re: Old Hoss Radbourn. Since Jim also commented, I went to Wikipedia for more information. I found this description of the 1884 season, which is a classic story for any baseball fan. Please excuse the length. If you read all the way through, you'll understand why I didn't shorten it. One more thing. Bear with me. Below is the Opening Day 1886 team photo of the Boston Beaneaters and New York Giants. Radbourn (standing, far left) is pictured giving the finger to the cameraman, the first known photograph of the gesture : Look to the immediate right of the guy sitting in the second row on the far left.
:idea: re: Orel Hershiser Orel speaks with fond memories of his time in Cleveland. He loved being an Indian and he loved the fans in Cleveland. re: Radbourn Old Hoss was quite a character. He drank, gambled, and raised hell everywhere he went. He came to a sticky end at age 42, after being blinded and disfigured in a hunting accident. That's what happens when you drink and use shot guns at the same time...
I know injuries are a part of the game but it is noteworthy what has happened to the Yankees in the last three weeks. CC Sabathia SP ( off a five game win streak ) Adam Warren Midd. Relief ( their best long reliever ) Greg Bird - IB ( He has been out most of the season ) Aaron Hicks - OF ( Hitting .300. Has all five tools ) Starlin Castro 2B ( hitting .320 ) Matt Holliday - DH ( having a really great yera with power ) It's weird how quick this happened. Hence a 3-11 record in the last two and half weeks.