If we had a playoff, Boise State might have won a first round game, but like in basketball where the mid-majors also upend some big names, none have ever won it all. They have made it to the final four, just not won. I don't have a problem with Boise State or any WAC/MtnWest/CUSA/MAC team getting a spot in a playoff...esp a 16 team playoff that I favor. I just don't favor them giving them the spot in the BCS Championship game as it is now run. They are ranked #5, I think that a great reward for having a terrific season. I don't really think they are better than the 6-7-8-9-10 teams. But like I said they are a great story and they deserved some kudos for their season. Terry
... <r><QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> <br/> but why??<br/> <br/> i'm not picking on you at all Terry. But as a long time lover of the old Rose Bowl setup, I had to hear all the nagging from fans of the other conferences saying that it couldn't be considered part of the NC picture because they (P10 and B10) chose to go do their own thing and weren't willing to play outside competition.<br/> <br/> That's exactly what the BCS has become, its just a larger 'exclusive' group that contends that no one else is good enough to be considered.<br/> <br/> Boise State this year was a whole lot better team that a lap dog worthy of a pat on the head. Many remember the exciting finish, but few seem to remember that Oklahoma was getting blown right out of the building until Boise imploded at the end (and then came back to win).<br/> <br/> We aren't going to get a 16 game format. We will get a plus one or plus 2 at best... And I'd say that Boise team stands a good chance to put together 2 wins..Its a shame they dont at least get the chance to be wrong.</r>
Listened to a little discussion of the "Div 1 playoff" controversy, yesterday, and there seems to be a "theory" that the greatest impediment to a big-school playoff via existing bowl games is the Rose Bowl ...... and it's two "tie-in" conferences. Seems the Rose is unwilling to join a program which may result in a "playoff bowl" game in Pasadena which doesn't include either BCS #1 vs BCS #2 ........ or Pac-10 vs Big-10/11. 41-14!!
I'm not buying that Corey, the WAC is a nice mid-major conference and Boise State has dominated it for awhile now. But they just don't belong in the Nat'l Championship conversation. Oklahoma was the perfect foil for them, with Paul Thompson at QB they really didn't have a passing game. They would have been killed by USC, Mich, Ohio State, LSU, yes probably even ND, Louisville, Wake Forrest. But if we take your premise, why not bring in the 1AA champion to the mix..have a true playoff where the 1A champion plays the 1AA champion...oh wait lets get Div2 and Div3 into the mix..those guys are good.
So you are saying that a team which won the Big 12, a team which should have had only 1 loss, a team which showed all season it has an excellent D, a team with arguably the best running back in the nation is a complete fraud and not worthy of the lofty ranking it had ? Another question , how does Thompson toss more INT's and inccur more turnovers against a weak WAC team than any other Big 12 opponent? Something is not right here. Boise State stuffed their RB all game long until that 25-30 yard run in overtime. How did they do that if they are not BCS worthy? How do you ignore a team that obviously has an excellent offensive line and a formidable defensive line ? The pulled the rabbit out of the hat at the end of the game. Until they did so, they were kicking the crap out of OK with an "in your face" smash mouth football. There were no smoke and mirrors, no trick plays to get them to that point. The misconception here is that Boise used trick plays all game long and can only win by fooling their opponents . What I saw was an azz whipping at the LOS and they didn't even use Zabransky's legs to do so. A team that can win at ole fashion football is a team that is as BCS worthy as any team in the country.
A couple of points AJ. 1. Texas was the best team in the B12, if Colt McCoy doesn't get injured on the first drive vs KState, we win that game. He was not ready for A&M either or we win that game as well. 2. Did you see Paul Thompson play this season, at all? He was not a good QB, hell against Texas A&M the passing game was terrible, he threw a terrible pick late in the 4th qtr that should have sealed a win for the Aggies. 3. Even though Texas was the best team in the Little 12 this year, the conference itself was the weakest I've seen it. Even Texas had virtually no pass defense. 4. OU was as overrated as Notre Dame, they get more credit than they deserve for just having Stoops as their coach. He was very fortunate that the conference was so down this year, it made him look like he did a great coaching job when the truth was that the conference was weak top to bottom so losing key players didn't really hurt him all that much. Bottom Line, I love the Boise State story. I don't really want to take anything away from what they accomplished, but I'm sorry you can run out all the stats you want but put BSU in the B10 and they'd lose 4 or 5 games this year.
With or without McCoy, you don't give up 45 points to K-State. That's horrible D !! That alone, kills any arguments about Texas being the best Big 12 team. Oklahoma didn't give up so many points. Even a non BCS worthy Rutgers D held K-State to 3 points and less than 100 yards offense for 3 1/2 quarters.
My point exactly, the B12 was bad this year. But Texas was the best team, unless you forgot, Texas handled OU handily in October, on the field results do still count. As far as the Texas defense vs KState, you're right it was terrible. It's one of the reasons that Gene Chizik supposed SEC Defensive Guru was waved bye bye very readily by Texas fans. His defense stunk this year. But even so it doesn't change the fact that Texas was the best team in the B12.
Corey, if you advocate that Boise State deserved a chance at Ohio State more than Florida then I couldn't disagree with you more. Whether you like this system or not, and most of us don't, that is no reason to put a team in the Championship game over a team that is obviously better. I have trouble believing that you actually think Boise State is better than Florida. I think one of the big reasons I am in favor of a playoff is that you could include teams like Boise State. On the other hand I am in favor of a playoff because teams with one or two losses in tough conferences could also be included. I respect your right to your opinion but would offer than you are in a very small minority.
I am reminded of Penn State some 35 or so years ago, who would have undefeated seasons playing an obviously inferior schedule consisting mostly of northeastern teams. Then they changed their scheduling and began playing upper tier programs, which put them in the mix and expanded their recognition beyond the northeast. Eventually, they won two NCs in the 80s and have been considered an elite program nationally ever since. IMO Boise State is two steps short of joining the elite ranks. The first step is to schedule 2-4 upper tier teams on a consistent basis. This would allow them to remain in their conference. The second - and most obvious - step is to win those games vs. the upper tier teams. Until they do that, they will be like Penn State pre-1980......not part of the conversation regardless of record.
35 years ago, we didn't have the parity we have today. The biggest difference today from 35 years ago is in the O & D lines. That's where the game has changed. Players are no faster today than yesterday. Wr's were just as fast. RB's just as fast and just as big. We have bigger and stronger players, which now places more of a premium on SKILL rather than RAW athletic ability which for years has escaped the lesser teams. Everyone has a 4.5 wr. Because of the constant turnover , you can't teach these kids fast enough how to play ball. Boise State beat Oregon State, a team good enough to beat USC who arguably has the best talent in the country. They beat Oklahoma who year in and year out produces a quality team. Georgia never gave them a return game. They beat them at home when Boise had a new QB and only shellacked them because of so many turnovers. How do you know that Boise State could not give FL all that it can handle? Fl beat OSU. OSU is still a great team, but OSU obviously showed that it's tackles couldn't match up with FL's DE's. That's where the game was lost. Did FL paste 41 on all of their opponents ? No only 2 weakest ones, CFU & W Carolina gave up more. FL wouldn't have scored 41 short field points had OSU moved the ball. So who has better tackles Boise State or OSU ? How about Vandy, Auburn or any one of the 8 teams that held FL under 28 points? Teams have won and got more respect with Florida rejects, why can't they respect a team with California rejects? Boise State deserves their ranking and deserves more credit. They did what no other did and that's win all their games including several bowl particpants and winning teams. I'm going on record and claiming that there is an East Coast bias conspiracy... a Southern conspiracy and a Midwest conspiracy too :lol: Paging James O' Connor !! Paging James O'Connor !! Will James O'Connor please come to the podium ? :lol:
i'm not saying that at all Bill <t>what I am saying is that neither you, nor I, know. We may believe what we believe but we don't know anything because we haven't seen it played out on the field.<br/> <br/> Revisionism be damned, troll the net and read the opinions of college football fans and writers on the day before the NC game. Only UF fans believed they even stood a chance at the upset. Instead, the reality is that they beat Ohio State like a pinata.<br/> <br/> We just don't know until we play the game. And we will never get to see that game because, at some point, the big boys will have to give up a slice of the pie. Look at how tightly they hold onto that extra 4.5 million for a non-NC BCS bowl slot!! Non BCS conference teams have to crawl thru a mile of poop and emerge smelling like a rose AND unscathed just to have a pollster's prayer of MAYBE gettting into a BCS game at all. Then there is the bitching about independent ND taking another 4.5 mil... The big conferences don't like to let their money go and this has nothing to do with wanting a real NC.<br/> <br/> We've turned bowl season into this drawn out, over-sponsored hype fest that does nothing but build ratings and line pockets. If we want a real champ, you put them on the field and play the game.<br/> <br/> And Terry,<br/> <br/> You can't possibly compare IAA, II or III to DI teams. The difference between them is vast. There just aren't that many scholarship athletes.</t>
AJ, I am certainly not saying Boise State didn't belong in a BCS Bowl, they earned that, however I do not thing they belonged in the BCS Championship game in place of Florida. In fact if not Florida I think there were 2 or 3 other teams that deserved that spot more than Boise State.
Bill, I don't want to take anything away from Fl's victory. Fl won fair and square. They are the champions. I personally would have liked to see a more competitive game, but it had to be very exciting and gratifying for you. I wouldn't argue that Boise was more or less deserving than Florida. All I say is that they should have been part of the championship process. They did everything they could. It's not like it was 10 years ago, when we had some truly dominant teams and huge discrepancies between have's and have nots. The tables have turned and we see far fewer blowouts today than ever. I also think that teams such as Boise State can win it,even if they have less overall talent. Teamwork, experience well placed talent and strategy can overcome talent discrepancies. Some kids have enormous talent but don't play fast because they just don't have enough experience or football IQ. I would have liked to see them have a shot but under the present system that was not possible and Corey is 100% right about the purse strings and influence. Some sort of playoff would address this but the Bowl system is still vital to the overall success of college football , so I don't know how they could address both issues . I don't see the BCS as a success but see it creating more controversies over who is the true champion, or what team should have had the opportunity. What if PSU beat UM, they would have been on the outside while Texas & USC battled it out. Yeah so they might not have "LOOKED" like they were one of the top 2 teams, but no one knows for sure. I used to have a 68 GTO convertible with accordion fenders. Looked like sh!t but ran like a dream. Guess what ? That sucker was FAST !!!! :lol:
8) Realistically, its not possible to analyze teams like Boise State. Even football fans in the Far-West don't know how good they are year-to-year, because the team is usually loaded with overlooked former high school stars, undersized former high school stars and JC transfers. Let me give you one example: Ian Johnson. As a Notre Dame fan who saw Johnson play more than 30 games when he was in high school, I could have guaranteed that Johnson was a better running back than the Irish's Darius Walker, but who would have believed me? Johnson was two inches taller, 10lbs heavier and much faster than Walker. He was also a great student academically and a better all-around athlete as well. But while Walker had been the Player of the Year in Georgia, Johnson had recieved only ONE scholarship offer: Boise State. Now how in the world are the other fans supposed to analyze that? I have no idea where that Boise QB came from, but somebody must have known... I think its just going to take time for Boise State to build credibility with football fans all over the country. Yes they're good, but how good is another question. You can't even compare them with other recent Cinderella situations like Rutgers or Northwestern, because those schools are located right on top of prime recruiting areas in New Jersey and Chicago. Boise is in Idaho... Its going to take time. ............JO'Co
Personally I don't think that Florida should have to put up with any kind of speculation that they weren't the right ones after the show they put on...I'm not taking anything away from Boise State, but if I were a Florida fan I'd just smugly ignore this topic with a big freaking smile on my face. :wink:
Stu, No one is debating who would be the better choice, just that Boise State should have been part of the equation. That's an obvious weakness of the BCS. It's been a problem before, they dodged the bullet on a few occassions and it will continue to be a problem. Could have been Penn State last year if they beat UM. The point is the BCS doesn't really work and they have to be lucky if it does.
Stu As a Gator fan reading some of the stuff on this thread you just don't sweat the small stuff, and chuckle at the idea of a Boise St - OSU matchup in Glendale ..... and realize the primary reson for no playoff via the current bowl system is largely because of the Rose Bowl and their ties to the Pac-10and Big-10. Heck, if Corey wants to call BSU the national champ .... good for him. Maybe they would have defeated UF on Monday. Maybe a BSU-OSU game may have been a little more competitive!!