Oh no no no Terry you cannot use a system that uses a PLAYOFF to make a valid comparison to college football's BCS system no matter how logical Bill tells you it and you are. That's bull and you know it. Gonzaga ironically gets the big boys to play them in hoops because... you're going to see them in the tourney anyway, you might as well get some idea of where you're at. In college football, the 'big boys' can hide behind their reputation and never put anything out there at all. What and why are they owed that? We aren't talking Alabama here.. we're talking Miss State.. and don't tell me they don't get the same 'cred' because they are in the same conference. both Missouri and Kansas damned near played for a NC recently... They're horseshit and scheduled their way into NC contention.. All you gotta do is pick the right crappy schedule and hope for a down year in a major conference. Eff fair.. I defy you to show me the logic in that. KP, Not really. We were all Boise once. Something a few Gator fans should remember but seemingly have forgotten. I understand what you are saying...but what I think, and believe, is that history has already been sold down the river... For all the Quixotic references Bill and Terry have made regarding me, it is they who don't see the absolute lack of substance behind their argument. The BCS is the college football equivalent of a 'whites only' food counter.
Yes we were and it took years to become one of the big boys. It didn't happen because of 5 or 10 or even 20 years of being pretty good. And I do favor a 16 team playoff, which would eliminate most of this argument
You know what Corey, I didn't make any references to you, however I do agree with Terry's logic. If that offends you then I don't understand that.
Corey I have a question for you. Utah and Boise State have both played in two BCS games I believe. How many SEC teams have appeared in that many or more? How many Big 10 teams have appeared in that many or more? Same for the Big 12 and Pac 10? I will agree about the Big East and ACC. Those two conferences are part of the BCS simply because FSU and Miami were in the two conferences and were strong at the time. But I don't think all that many teams have played in two or more BCS games. I think I know which SEC teams but not the others. Ohio State, S. Cal, Texas and Oklahoma, Miami, Va Tech and FSU I'm sure.
KP, I agree, however, that has clearly changed. The rise of the Canes, Gators, Seminoles etc show that. 'Bubbey' probably had the longest building process but the others rose fast. My point isn't that Alabama or Florida could play for a title.. my beef is that Kansas and Missouri could play for a title (which darn near happened). I'm with you on the 16 team playoff.. Bill, You may agree with Terry's logic, but you also said there are essentially two (most certainly one) BCS conference that is NOT worthy of such stature. But using your numbersl.. that means 2 of the 6, (one third) of BCS conferences are of, at best, questionable stature... Meanwhile, we exclude a conference like the Mountain West which is CLEARLY better than the Big East and is most likely much tougher than the ACC as well.
Oh Bill.. I don't want to be accused of avoiding your question (even if it were rhetorical)... to answer your question: You asked who has appeared in two or more BCS games. You should ask Gip, never ask a question you don't know the answer to already..especially if you're trying to be sardonic. BCS Bowl appearances: Ohio State 8 Oklahoma 7 USC 7 Florida 6 Florida State 6 LSU 4 Miami 4 Michigan 4 Virginia Tech 4 Texas 4 Alabama 3 Georgia 3 Notre Dame 3 Cincinnati 2 Oregon 2 Illinois 2 Iowa 2 Nebraska 2 Tennessee 2 West Virginia 2 Wisconsin 2 And keep in mind.. In order to sit at the big boy table, Boise and Utah had to go unbeaten. The same cannot be said for that MASSIVE list above.
To answer your additional question: Big 10: Has had FIVE teams go 2 or more times. Big12: Has had THREE teams go 2 or more times. Pac10: has had TWO teams go 2 or more times. SEC: Has had FIVE teams go 2 or more times. ACC: has had THREE teams go 2 or more times. Big East: had TWO teams go 2 or more times. Qualifier: I may be wrong, but I believe some of the ACC appearances by VTech and Miami actually took place as Big East members. I could be wrong though.
Yes they could have but they would have had to go through, Texas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska to get there and the reason it only nearly happens every once in a while is because they have to go through Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Tech, A&M, etc every year. That's a key point. Now a playoff would give BSU a shot every year but until we get that, I think that if Mizzou can get through the Big 12, that has to count for something.
Corey, nice list. Did you find that somewhere or did you have to construct it your self? I think I only see four SEC teams, Florida, LSU, Alabama and Georgia. Auburn has had one appearance if memory serves me right. Oh Oh, make that 5, Tennessee Sorry Tom and Cindy Corey, I think most people here would prefer a playoff and probably all of us support the teams you are championing going to BCS Bowls when deserved. I know when Boise State makes it I always watch them and some part of me is rooting for them. Same for Utah and TCU. I think the big difference is that while I want a playoff and I pull for those other teams I am not going to lose sleep over it or let it ruin my day because of the injustice of it all. In time it will work out, meanwhile the debate will continue.
Why thank you Kp. I guess it's the type thing that keeps the board active. Meanwhile I'll enjoy my Gators and the SEC. :wink: :wink:
Just like a Gator to overlook the SEC team in that list that played in and won the first BCS Championship game.
I don't think it had anything to do with being a Gator Tom. Last night in my mind I had come up with the right teams, then Corey posted this and not being to alert after just waking up I didn't see the 5th team. But I corrected my post, go take a look, and want to ask a favor. If you see my daughter who lives in Knoxville don't tell her I made that mistake.
Here's a good link to Wikipidia which seems to have all this information. I don't know if Corey used this one or another one but it has all the games. BCS History
KP, I'm with ya...but what do we do when those teams suck? It has and will happened again. The truth is that usually while 1 or 2 of them may be up, the rest are usually in a down cycle... When The Huskers were king, Texas was average at best and Oklahoma was rarely a .500 team. On brand alone, the gauntlet is stout... but in actuality, it is a mortal rotating cycle that really isn't all that impressive and daunting... and the reason those teams dont play for the title is 1) lack of natural resources 2) Lack of leadership. Because of 1, the coaches in #2 see those jobs as a stepping stone and bail on them before they can really build something. The interesting thing (to date) about Boise and Utah (ala BYU) is that they have 2 coaches who appear to not use the job as a stepping stone. People seem to forgoet that Boise wound up being used as a stepping stone by the likes of Houston Nutt, Dirk Koetter and that mcCartney/McCarthy POS out in Colorado...Since Peterson appears to be sticking around, they have gone from that 'cute' team that wins a lot to a flat out machine. Ditto that for Utah, although certainly not the same degree. I forget the cat who was there before Meyer... Ron McBridge or Bride or something like that. Anyway, he was a 'good' football coach. Some years good, some years bad.. They had been a thorn in USC's side long before Urban Meyer stepped foot on that campus.. Anyway, then Meyer played leapfrog with them and now they have Wittingham.. who seems to be showing a long term commitment to the Utes and it appears they are becoming a more viable top 10/15 team annually. Also, scholarship restrictions have sped (and I want to give Bill credit for this as I believe he mentioned it first) up the process of programs turning around. You can do it much faster these days. There's a very real chance that Texas was the 2nd best team in Texas this year. When I think of ass kicking defense and ball control offense, I think Mountain West before I think Big12. Sometimes things change. hell, there was a time when ND was a power... in my adult lifetime even
Bill, Thanks, that was 1 of the 2 sources. I saw your original post and thought 'awww dammit... I hate it when I do things on the fly and miscount'.. Glad I wasn't wrong There's another source I was using.. I always use this source as the final 'fact check' to compare other sources.. http://cfbdatawarehouse.com
I bookmarked the site Corey, thanks. And thanks for the compliment. I used to think the lower scholarship limits were a bad thing, now I think it is a good thing, for the reason of allowing the Boise States of the world to come along and as you said you can turn a program around quicker. If Kelly is the coach I think he is I believe we may well see that in South Bend. Hey, a question, not to many years ago Notre Dame did not allow redshirtting, is that still the case?