8/23 GOP Debate

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by BuckeyeT, Aug 24, 2023.

  1. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    I choose our borders. Our sovereignty is in serious question.
     
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  2. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, it's not the cost of protecting our borders that is holding us back. It's the lack of will.
     
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  3. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Russia's fossil fuel export revenue is down significantly - roughly 1/2 what they were before invasion largely at discounted prices because of price caps. They have been able to successfully reroute their exports to the Chinese and India who have stepped in and propped up Putin's gas station post-sanctions. The sanctions regime imposed while not perfect are having a material effect. The longer the war lasts, the greater is the damage to Putin's economy, not just his oil/gas business but the entirety of his economic infrastructure is being decimated supporting his war effort. At the start of his invasion the Russian economy was smaller than that of Italy and roughly the same size as Brazil. The scale of his war expenditures in comparison to the size and strength of the NATO economies is crushing to him and unsustainable.....the damage that he has done to his economy from a global competitive standpoint will take generations to overcome, if ever.

    That said, I agree with you, give Ukraine the arms they need to win the war now.....I don't know if it's Biden or NATO/EU but the hesitation to initially provide F-16s and now, the longer range ATACMS is a material benefit to the KGB thug.
     
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  4. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason we can't. As Stu suggested, it's not Ukraine but the lack of political will that prevents us. But, that's not at all relevant to the Ukrainian question, simply a false choice and convenient, tho highly transparent, dodge with which the extreme right can use to continue to pursue their partisan aims at the expense of their country and the obvious benefit of her enemies
     
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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2023
  5. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    To your point I saw today that it just hit 33 Trillion. :(
     
  6. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Our military is greatly wounded. We've lost thousands of honorable individuals who refused to take a vaccine that was a greater danger to young healthy individuals than the disease it supposedly prevented. We've lost the confidence of military families who for generations have encouraged their children to follow in their footsteps serving this nation. We've put in charge of our military individuals who indoctrinate our service men and women ideas that white individuals and our country are oppressors of minorities and our country is evil. How are they supposed to serve and be willing to die for a country that they've been told to despise? When the people who put these radical anti-Americans in charge of our country start preaching about our being the "beacon of Freedom" it turns my stomach.
     
  7. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Got an appointment for the new vaccine tomorrow. I'm a believer.
     
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  8. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Yep, my Doc said the same. Recommended we wait for the new one and get ours prior to heading overseas in late November. We're gonna take him up on it
     
  9. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    Same here. Getting flu shot same day. According to my friend, Dr. gipper, I'm double doomed. :D
     
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  10. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    There's room for some debate. Gip is right in that the virus is less severe in the young...does vaccinating the young help protect the old? I dunno but it's their choice if they don't want to get it. Is the vaccine more risky to the young than the virus? Maybe but not sure I buy that.

    Despite the mistrust of science right now I think that as more and more data come out the answers to those questions will become clearer.

    Is there a coverup of US involvement in the Wuhan Lab regarding accidental creation of COVID 19? I don't know that either, and I'm not exactly a conspiracy theory guy...but I do wonder.

    It's hard for me to sympathize with the 8400 military guys who refused the vaccine. I didn't serve but have heard that new recruits line up and get shot up with so many vaccines they don't know what they are getting...no choice. I do think that since they rescinded the COVID vaccine requirement that they could give those guys some grace and let them back in.
     
  11. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    What's that???? You mean they didn't get to pick and choose their personal vaccine regimen based upon what their favorite politician or their Twitter feed says? How can that be, surely you jest!!

    In all seriousness, I personally feel that the politicization of public health and democratization of "science" will have lasting effects and not for good
     
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  12. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Gip gonna get a flu shot when one is available here. My Dr. isn't ready to recommend the new Covid shot because she doesn't feel all the testing is done.
    Yes I got 2 Covid shots and a booster. Yes I as everyone else bought the lies that if we were vaccinated we couldn't get or spread Covid.
    The CDC screwed up so much during Covid especially in the beginning. The US was short on testing ability because they chose not to adopt the WHO tests but insisted on their own tests. Their tests were defective which resulted in slowed efforts to get a handle on the disease in the beginning. Maybe the teachers unions were giving the CDC bad testing advice.
     
  13. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    In reality it is not an either/or situation. Both aiding Ukraine and securing the borders can be done but the controlling political parties are at loggerheads. The majority of Democrats seem diffident to the fact that allowing millions of people cross the southern border unimpeded has caused severe economic and cultural hardship to our country. The majority of Republicans seem indifferent to the idea that allowing Russia to slaughter Ukrainians and run rampant in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East poses grave dangers to the prospect of a secure and more democratic world.
     
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  14. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    I don’t recall guarantees that the vaccine would prevent getting or spreading the virus. I recall plenty of evidence that the vaccine seemed to decrease severity of symptoms and fatalities. Not everything that changes and becomes clearer over time is a lie.
     
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  15. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Also we now have better drugs that actually work (Paxlovid) and the advantage of some natural immunity which we did not have at the time. That helps make more sense now for those who choose not to be vaccinated.
     
  16. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    As is the case about so much else that we learn over time with more information and better technology, new discoveries about the evolution of pathogens and their interactions with the human population isn't a lie, as the politicians and conspiracy theorists have conditioned many to call it....we used to call it discovery and learning.

    My own personal view of the Covid vaccine mandates for the military were reinforced by the outbreak onboard the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt. As you may recall, the outbreak was such that the carrier's operational readiness fell below that which was necessary for it to remain on station in the western pacific, forcing the commander to breach operational security, leave it's station and return to port in Guam to mitigate the epidemic. We only have 11 in the entire fleet, not all of which are battle ready at any given time. Losing one is a big deal to national security readiness. Imagine an epidemic raging amongst members of the Submarine service in the close quarters they occupy whilst underway....they couldn't perform their mission. To my mind, it goes without saying that if another dose of medicine helps maintain fleet readiness and national security at the levels we deem acceptable, it seems the logical thing to do, in spite of what even Tommy Tuberville, his ilk and their constituents might believe

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019375
     
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  17. Scott88

    Scott88 Well-Known Member

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    You know before the original covid miracle vaccine arrived there was a reason cold vaccines weren't given out:
    They didn't work and often made getting through a cold mor difficult.
    That's old data widely available so I won't reference any here.
    Then along comes Covid. And we are told this vaccine has 95% efficacy. WOW! 95%!!!
    I was a little incredulous at that, but it never occurred to me they might be stretching things a bit.
    Turns out "a bit" was an order of magnitude off.
    So excuse some of us (who have had it twice - once before vaccines) are now totally unimpressed by any BS any "scientist" puts out about a new cold vaccine being the way to go...
     
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  18. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya Scott, you're not alone for sure, there are millions who feel the same way. As for me, I'm just gonna do it the old fashioned way. Rather than ask my congressman or poll my Twitter feed as many seem to be doing these days, I'm just gonna ask my Doc. I just think it makes the most sense
     
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  19. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    AP FACT CHECK: Biden goes too far in assurances on vaccines
    Took all of 20 sec. to find this.
     
  20. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Geez, the Roosevelt incident would have occurred if everyone was vaccinated. I know at least a dozen people who've gotten covid even though they were vaccinated. You're just as bad as Biden touting the vaccine as stopping the disease. It doesn't