Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN, Apr 20, 2023.
Nebraska state senators pass permitless concealed carry bill
Glad to see there's hard-core constitutional support here in Skybox Land...
Disclaimer. I don't own a gun, and have never shot a gun unless you count the ones at the Carnival trying to knock down ducks.
That said I'm for rules and regulations regarding gun ownership. I don't see the problem with requiring background checks or requiring gun safety training. Granted when the Founding Fathers wrote the constitution it's highly unlikely that at that time they would have supported background checks or mandatory gun safety training to own one. But that was then and clearly times have changed.
I'll grant that background checks won't catch every nut case and gun safety training won't guarantee that they will not go out and do something awful. But still I think we do need procedures and training.
I'm a proud gun owner and concealed carry permit holder. I believe that our Constitution is the finest political governing document ever written and I'm a supporter of our 2nd amendment rights. That said, I also know that our Founding Fathers would never have sat idly by and watched their children be slaughtered as they sat in their classrooms, nor refused to act when gun violence became the leading cause of death among children in our society. It's that whole "promote the general welfare" thing...clearly times have changed and clearly we can and should do better
I'm going to move this to the politics board later today.
We have contact with people everyday who 50 years ago would be living in mental health facilities. Now they walk among us. And It's clear that many can get their hands on guns... legally. In New Jersey we have a pretty stringent set of checks and balances that one must submit to before you can buy a firearm. It takes weeks, costs money and you are checked at the local, state and federal levels and must provide character witnesses. I own three firearms myself.
Well after successfully winning the War on Poverty, the War on Drugs, it's time to begin the War Against Guns. George is right, the vast majority of these mass murders either kill themselves or willingly commit suicide by cop. Somewhere along the line we felt we could control the unbalanced with social workers and Personal Protection Orders. Time and again they fail leading to fatal consequences.
Gun and abortion are the two biggest threats to the GOP having any meaningful success. They need to compromise. Firm background checks nationally is a reasonable compromise. Abortion legal to 90 days would be a reasonable compromise. Governing from the extremes has completely divided this country.
Couldn't agree more Krebsie, it seems they can't do arithmetic very well. In 2020, there were 10 million more women that voted than men. As any rational man has known for generations, piss off the ladies at your own risk. Compromise is necessary
By the very nature of the governing structure that they designed the Founders understood that compromise is a prerequisite for effective governance in a democracy. Where I would disagree slightly is that one can't govern from the extremes. One may get elected from the fringe, but one cannot hope to govern effectively nor lead a strong nation united behind a common purpose and shared vision with a radical and divisive agenda. It just can't work.....the nature of our republic was simply not designed to operate in that manner
Societal norms...nuclear family....patriotism.....I should have been 20 in 1955....Dad said I would loved it.
Flat tops, bucks and a comb in your back pocket....yeah I could see you in the '50's.
Ah the background checks battle cry...
News flash, every new firearm purchase requires an FBI NICS check.
No going around it. If you haven't committed a felony, or self committed yourself, you pass.
(or if you have, but some agency hasn't input the info into the system )
What else is there?
Oh do you mean you want a registry, as the folks who keeps screaming for "universal background checks" want?
There's only one reason for a registry... and it's not to prevent crime.
If we truly want to protect our children then we should harden schools, and make them a less palatable target.
The trans shooter straight up said she went to the school because it was an easy target.
I have little concern for my wife (1st grade teacher). Her school district posts signs with this verbiage outside the schools, and they mean it.
I hear ya Scott and I'm sympathetic to that line of thought as well, I carry a 9mm Glock19 where I can get it, IWB, strong side at 4:30 regularly, but here's where I am. Very clearly we have a massive problem. That sign, tho effective I'm sure, and bullet-proof backpacks, etc are just further evidence and symptoms of the larger issue of our erosion as a society.
I have to believe that it is unacceptable to people of any advanced civilization to have gotten to the point of necessitating armed guards to protect their young while at school and having gun violence be the #1 cause of death among their children. The glide path we are on is horrific and status quo is unacceptable. I cannot believe the Founding Fathers in all their wisdom ever envisioned that this would be the inevitable cost of a free society and the natural outcome of the 2nd Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights. Rather, in my view it is more likely the unacceptable cost of the kind of deeply divided partisanship that Washington warned us about in his farewell address when a society is lacking effective unifying leadership.
We must do something as a society. The problem is unsolvable unless somebody's view of their civil rights gets trampled to some degree. In order to do anything compromise is the only path, the logical answer is some of each...some limitations on the 2nd Amendment, some privacy issues, search and seizure, healthcare info, etc all need to be on the table. A civilized society will not survive the status quo with partisan bickering about their civil rights while watching their children be slaughtered whilst the Founding Fathers roll over in their graves at our stupidity. There is a solution, we just need to find the leadership, common sense and wisdom to be willing to seek it with the people on the other side of the political chasm
BT, IMO the most insightful and intelligent post on the subject.
Thanks Sid....we have a problem, we need to solve it and quit bickering about who gets credit for it. The smartest man I ever met and my mentor of some 40 years ago told me very wisely when I was a much younger man, he said "Spencer! You'll be amazed at what you can get done if you don't care who gets credit for it!" I've taken that to heart and have always valued people who were more interested in getting things done vastly more than those concerned with who gets credit. We as a society just need to solve the damn problem, to hell with the partisans
To be sure, I have no resistance to real solutions (of which we've heard very little so far).
My humble opinion is that solution will probably have to come from addressing mental health.
Something that was pretty much abandoned quite a few years ago.
Hardening the schools is assuredly not the ideal solution, or even close to the one we want.
I put that forth because I get sick to death of hearing "we need to protect our children" followed by a call to end some of my constitutionally guaranteed rights.
PROTECT: to defend or guard from attack, invasion, loss, annoyance, insult, etc.; cover or shield from injury or danger.
Folks can and will argue about the 2nd amendment for the rest of time, but why can't we PROTECT the children today? Why is there ANY resistance to that? I have to admit I'm mystified on that one.
After golf on Saturday our foursome retired to the 19th hole for a couple of beers. All four of us were from different states. Two of the three identified as moderate Republicans, one conservative Republican and one moderate Democrat. For the first time this winter politics came up. All four of us voted for Trump in 2020 and all four of us stated that we hoped he would not be the nominee in 2024. Then the conversation switched to guns. All four of us agreed that the situation has reached the point that we need a thorough uniform background check procedure in all states. The most conservative among us is an ex-cop who surprised us with his desire to see ARs and similar semi automatic rifles banned from the general public. He thinks they are too deadly and easy to use to be in the hands of the casual user or the psychopaths. The lone Democrat disagreed, saying that if you ban one type of gun then the government will eventually come for all of them. This just illustrates the wide and sometimes unexpected viewpoints on the topic. P.S. None of us have much if any trust in our own federal government as it now exists.
I've not heard any real solutions either. In my book defined as one that has a material chance of passage and help to provide a material impact on the problem. To address the issue at all, some, and in my view to find a comprehensive solution, likely multiple of our constitutional rights would be more restricted than at present - some of which twists the panties of the right and some of which twists the panties of the left. Since its inception this country has, haltingly but inevitably, shown the wisdom to find the sack in order to place reasonable restrictions on several of those rights in order to "promote the general welfare". The examples are too numerous to mention....but I couldn't carry my Glock on the flight to San Diego to see my son, or ask FOX, they just got an $800 Million reminder with many hundreds of $millions more to go
That we have been unable to address one of the most obvious issues confronting the "general welfare" of our nation tells me that in our current divide, there is no real interest in finding a solution as both the left and the right much prefer to use those "rights" as a cudgel for which to bash the opposing position and curry political favor amongst the partisans. It's an election year, nothing will be done and nothing can be done until somebody is willing to put country before political dogma and work to find a real solution, which by definition, will require compromise such that both sides can agree.
I'm sorry, maybe it's just me getting soft in my old age, but the thought of the Founding Fathers waving and hiding behind their copies of the Bill of Rights while watching their babies get slaughtered in their classrooms and on the streets upon which they play, is preposterous to me
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