Stu, it's time to extend our sympathies....if our Gator boy believes in his own logic, he has to be feeling a tad lowly given that it would be nigh impossible for his Florida bunch to be in consideration in the face of a lackluster showing in a 3rd tier bowl to an inferior opponent as compared to our loss in the national title game to the eventual national champion - that is if recent past results have any bearing.....if they don't then it's a moot point. There is nobody that has played consistently superior football with consistently superior results than we have over the course of the last several seasons. Nobody....we've lost 5 games in 3 years. Three of those 5 losses have been to the eventual national champion, 1 was to a Penn State team that came within 1 play in 1 second on the road in the Big House from playing for the title and the other was to BCS/Rose Bowl bound Illini. In 3 years, 5 losses all to BCS bowl bound teams, 3 of which were national champs and 1 a heartbeat away. That resume stands alone in college football..... there have been no Kentucky, Stanford, Vandy or Tx Tech. None. The notion that losing to a champion in the title game is a far greater transgression than losing to a vastly more inferior opponent is laughable at best.....
Did you read Mandel? You always want to attribute this way of thinking soley to me and incorrectly so. This is a prevailing national opinion of Ohio State right now and mostly because of who the Buckeyes did not beat last year....that coupled with the fact the nation wants to see a competitive national title game with the two best teams and OSU has had two straight shots to prove they were one of those two. I'm not saying they weren't but last year's schedule wouldn't really tell you that especially considering the loss to Illinois. When Florida got it's shot it made the most of it and as I have said before Florida was not a BCS team last year because of defense. That jury is definitely still out on the Gators but if they improve defensively and finish as a one loss team...SEC Champs, etc. then don't you think USC would have to lose twice for the Buckeyes to get back in the NC game as a one loss team? Think about that math for a minute.
Bullcrap! It's the prevailing opinion of everyone with an agenda that involves a) being paid to write or say something that attracts attention, and b) loyalty to a team or conference that competes with OSU or the Big 10 for status and attention. Regarding a) above it's a common practice in the print and verbal media to pile on a topic that gets some run. There's no thought or intelligence involved, just a sheep mentality. This topic is one sorry example of the media/MCG pile-on mentality. We ND fans have seen it over and over again for years when we are down. The groups described above are neither national nor prevailing, just all too visible. I am as ambivalent about Ohio State as I am about Florida, Georgia or any other national power that is not on ND's schedule. But I recognize that of all the premier programs, Ohio State has been the nation's most consistent winner over the past 5 years. Lopsided losses to the eventual national champion create conversation but that's all. The slanted conversation (Refer to 1st paragraph above) does not diminish one iota Ohio State's remarkable run over the past several years. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, MCG, and Lord knows you express it, but don't insult our intelligence by claiming your and others' opinions (Refer again to 1st paragraph above) in any way represent "prevailing national opinion."
The fact remains that Mandel's need to sell his wares and your obsession with Ohio State notwithstanding, the fundamental basis of his argument and your blind acceptance of same is logically bankrupt and makes zero sense. Period. .....losing in a lesser bowl to a lesser team in conjunction with losing later in the season to a lesser team can not ever, in any way shape of form, provide evidence of superiority over a team who lost in the national championship game to the eventual national champion and lost early in the season on the road to one of the acknowledged elite powers. That is the core of the argument.....I've rarely if ever seen or heard a more absurd argument....
LSU in Baton Rouge needed an improbable FIVE fourth down conversions to eek one out over Florida in the closing minutes last year and by contrast the Tigers had a 3 TD lead over OSU wth 4 minutes to play and coasted home. Draw your own conclusion over that but this has not been about 2007 Fla vs. 2007 OSU for me. I don't see where you get that idea because I have said that Fla had it's troubles last year and I am not trying to say UF was better.....competitive with OSU absolutely but a better overall team and season....no.
I just hope Alabama can beat Clemson to open the season. If Bama wins I'm sure a lot of people will claim that Clemson is overrated. ...and they can claim anything that they want to.
It's as relevant as LSU losing to Kentucky or Appy State whacking M in the Big House or Stanford taking out SC in LA or Bama losing to U-La-Monroe or any other individual game over the course of a season....draw your own conclusion over that. Mandel's argument is nonsense.....Mandel knows it. He's just trying to sell pages to anyone who will buy it - rational or no. It's absurd....anyone with half a brain can think through that nonsense. If you want to assess the prevailing opinion in the the country, I'd probably canvass a much wider array of sentiment than a writer trying to hawk his wares by any means possible.....
Don, the Badgers ANYWHERE are always difficult and have been for quite some time....in spite of our Gator friends efforts at revisionist history and often being the #3 or #4 Big 10 team, Wisky has played the SEC runner-up to a virtual standoff the last two years.....taking the measure of the runner-up Arkansas 2 years ago and just falling short to the runner-up Vols in a thriller last year - both of which were in Florida. I daresay they are just a little bit tougher at home in Madison in November! Kudos to the Vols last year hanging tough and denying a Wisky bid to win at the end. Fascinating to think there are those that would consider those Badgers unworthy competitors....! :wink:
I've come to the conclusion that sarcasm is completely wasted on you. However, you are correct. I really don't have to read someone else's opinions on what the top games are. Quite frankly they're pretty easy to recognize.
BT I think for you the world is a little more scarlet and grey than it truly is in reality. Not everyone holds OSU in the same high esteem that a dyed in the wool Buckeyes fan does and not everyone thinks as highly of Florida as I do..... Just pay attention to what is said and written over the next two months leading up to Sept. 13th. Otherwise a win over USC would probably propel OSU back to the NC game even with a Big Ten loss.
I always do for entertainment purposes while making sure I engage my brain for a logic check. As it stands right now, people are saying and writing that we're going to be pretty damn good - and that makes sense.
Wait a minute Terry, friends? :? As in more that one? 8) What other Gator is revising history? :shock: By the way Ohio State fans that I have read here and elsewhere seem to feel very good about the game with USC.
Bill, I stand corrected, that is "friend's" as in the possessive.... :wink: The SC game is something for sure everybody is looking forward to....we look to have a very strong team. Last year's young inexperienced overachievers are all coming back - we get 41 of our top 44 kids back on the two deep. This is actually the team that everyone has been pointing to - the last two trips to the title game were unexpected, but pleasant surprises. I think we all believe the SC game is going to be great theater, hugely hyped, much anticipated showdown and a magnificent spectacle about all that is good about college football. A titanic clash between two of the games elite powers in a wonderful, intersectional showdown - not unlike what we saw leading up to the Texas games and that was great, great stuff. Our sense is that SC probably lost a little bit more than we did from last year particularly on the oline but will be a formidable test. Our kids are experienced, have been in the glare of the national spotlight on several occasions over the years and will come to play. Given the home field advantage - LA is a long way to travel - I would expect the Trojans to be 2-3 point favorites and that's probably about how I see the game....a close, hard fought battle to the end. If we can be solid offensively, run Beanie effectively and take care of the football, I like our chances in a very physical, intense, pressure packed game.
Not a bit.....I've always believed that defense wins championships. We had alot of offensive talent coming back and were touted by many, but replacing 9 of 11 starters on defense including probably the best set of LBer's in the county and the prospect of an early season trip to Austin to face the defending national champs was a daunting task to say the least. Anytime you are that inexperienced and have to replace virtually the entirety of your defense and have a showdown with the national champions on their home turf, imo, it's a bit of a stretch to expect to get to the title game.
Terry, in 2006 Ohio State led from start to finish. It didn't come as a surprise to much of the Country that you were in that game. Actually a lot of the media thought it should be Ohio State vs Michigan for all the marbles. I don't think it was a majority, but a sizable number of people, led of course by Kurt Heirbstreet, who thought that should be the case. I have to agree that 2006 was not a surprise to many people. Now last year? That's a different story. Others just kept falling by the wayside and Ohio State ended up in the big game again. Surprise? Yes, but also deserved by the way last season played out. Hey thanks for the correction by the way!! 8) 8)
Bill, The jury was still very much out on that team until after we took down the defending national champ Texas on the road. We got a big bump and made believers out of many who as I did were concerned that we'd be able to field a team worthy of playing for the titile with such a young and inexperienced defense. Those kids performed unexpectedly well and voila....pre-season, I would have been thrilled to get 10 wins with such a young defense. Bill, I'm always just a little bit nervous when you lose that much leadership and have that many first year starters.....case in point is the dramatic drop-off Notre Dame had to endure after the loss of so many of their offensive stars. The success of wholesale retooling ain't always a given!
I agree with everything you said Terry. However that 2006 team was deserving of the Championship game and was not a surprise to many people. What did happen that year is the Gators were underrated and we did manage to play our best game of the year against Ohio State, our best by far.
Ohio State was ranked #1 in the first AP poll of the 2006 season. Hardly a development that would not support the argument for OSU as one of the top two choices to make the NC game in 2006.