#1....debate?

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by Motorcity Gator, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    I'm having a difficult time figuring out the AP voting trend. Why is it that they voted a one loss Fla. ahead of an undefeated Utah? Was it strength of schedule? Fair enough. But why then do they vote one loss Tex. and SC behind Utah? Texas especially played a very difficult schedule with back to back to back to back games against highly rated teams.
    On the other hand the coaches were easy to figure. Even though Utah beat 3 teams in their top 25 including no. 6 Ala. because they weren't one of the chosen BCS teams they played second fiddle to all the one loss BCS teams.
     
  2. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Utah's main claim to fame other than going unbeaten was the win over Alabama....a team that Fla had already dispatched.

    Florida beat the #2 ranked AP team/#1 ranked BCS team in their bowl game....a better bowl win feat for rankings purposes than was Utah's win over Bama.
     
  3. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I've read most all, if not all, the threads Corey.

    Gaterz, you might have a point.

    Gipper, I don't know if there is a pattern, each voter calls it the way they see it I guess.

    What seemed consistent to me is that Florida was a clear 1 or 2 on most of the ballots and Texas, USC and Utah seemed to split up the votes for the three places after that with Utah finishing ahead of the other two mostly on the 16 first place votes they received.

    In the Coaches poll there were only 18 points separating the three teams. So it seems to a great extent the thoughts were split beteen 2,3 and 4.

    This may be a bit revised from what I said before the Gators would be 1st followed by Texas, Utah and USC in that order with Oklahoma 5th.

    The pattern with me is gut feel. :)
     
  4. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Here's another problem I have with the coach's poll. They voted OK ahead of Tex. so that OK instead of Tex. got to pound Missouri and play in the NC game. Now that the season is over all of a sudden they have Texas ahead of Ok. That's ********.
     
  5. IrishCorey

    IrishCorey Well-Known Member

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    Gip,

    Stop with the facts and the logic, it doesn't play well here.

    Gaterz,

    Funny.. about this time last year I posted the non cons of the pac10 teams and I believe Terry greeted me with 'nice schedules what's your point?' My point was, at that time, to document that the Pac10 annually gets after people. It isn't a 'once in a generation' thing (or once in every 4 or 5 in Georgia's case), and it is something the conference prides itself on. In fact, I believe many posters here (Terry included) have made mention of the fact that such scheduling practices aren't smart for winning titles but they are great for fans... Now you're calling the Pac10 schedules weak?

    The Pac10, sans Oregon State, historically get out and play people. Aside from a very small group of teams in your conference.. the same cannot be said.
     
  6. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Quote from Gipper
    From Corey
    Question for Gipper, are you saying the coaches voted Oklahoma over Texas so Oklahoma so Oklahoma could play in the Big 12 Championship game?

    If that is not what you meant, just what did you mean?

    Corey, just what logic and facts don't play well here? Explain that one to me please.
     
  7. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    There are no logic and facts.

    I am satisfied with Florida #1. I salute Utah on a fabulous season but feel they are ranked fairly at #5. In my opinion USC did not take care of business against PSU in the Rose Bowl. They jumped out on them and then stopped, actually getting outscored 17-7 in the 2nd half. Out!!
     
  8. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Thank you George!!!

    I like your avatar.

    I haven't been able to find those kind of fish in Franklin NC. :lol: :lol:
     
  9. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree. That statement is a constant throughout the history of college football polls. I long for the day when Notre Dame returns to the top and is chosen for the national championship game and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth throughout the country because millions of ND haters put forth the argument that there is no logic to the choice, that the "facts" don't support it. It hasn't happened in the internet age. If you think the Utah issue is a firestorm, you aint seen nothin' until Notre Dame is in the conversation.
     
  10. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    You are probably right about when Notre Dame is in the picture Sid and I will tell you that from my personal viewpoint that seeing how much stuff can be stirred up, probably is more accurate to say attempted to stir up, over any system if you choose to nitpick the details, that when that happens I will not join the crowd of complainers.

    The only thing I might add is that in my view there is no firestorm except in the mind of a few people who like to nitpick the details.

    I would like to see a championship game between a Charlie Weis coached Notre Dame and a Urban Meyer coached Gator squad. :D :D
     
  11. HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN

    HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Ya know, after watching some footage of all the major games (I TiVo, not to be confused with TeBow), I honestly think the most intriguing matchup for the NC would have been USC vs Fla.
     
  12. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    You mean Tebow didn't invent the Tivo?

    I agree with you about the intriguing matchup with the Gators and Trojans. Only thing is that the computers don't seem to do either of those teams any favors so they will probably both have to be unbeaten to get that done.

    I would love to play that game.
     
  13. GaterzFan

    GaterzFan New Member

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    I don't disagree. Maybe, if the PAC-10 and the Big-10/11 had a playoff-like ConferenceCG ala some of the other conferences, we'd have seen the USCw-UF matchup this last week.
     
  14. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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  15. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we are missing the point here.

    This is college football, still technically an amateur sport. A sport affiliated with institutions of higher learning. It is a supposed to fun.

    Maybe we are not supposed to have a clear winner. Maybe we are allowed to cling onto our own perceptions of who would beat who, which conference is the best, why ND should stay independent etc, etc. It makes for great debate, fosters hope for the future and pride for your school or conference.

    Is there anything all that wrong with that?

    I'm cool with it.
     
  16. Gator Bill

    Gator Bill Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Gipper, you need to check your facts because you are wrong. The coaches poll actually narrowed the last week before the Big 12 Championship game, the one that decided the participants in that game.

    Actually Texas moved within one vote of Oklahoma in the coaches poll that week for a gain not a loss. And they were ahead of Oklahoma in the Harris poll. Combining the two voting polls Texas was ahead of Oklahoma by a very small margin. It was the computer polls that put Oklahoma into the championship game.

    And I really don't see what the big shock is about Texas moving back ahead of Oklahoma after they one their bowl game and Oklahoma lost theirs. After all like I said above the difference the week before the Big 12 Championship game it was only one vote in the coaches poll that separated them.

    There was enough difference in the #@$@!$ computer polls that the voting polls would have had to have quite a few more shifts in the vote to overcome.

    Oklahoma did move further ahead after beating Missouri.

    You can check the week by week facts here. All of them show the teams final record but do have the week by week polls.

    Weekly Footall Polls
     
  17. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Couple of thoughts here:

    - ND can't win a conference....could hurt them in a one loss scenario but at
    least they play USC in the final game.....should help computer ranking
    at the very end....where a computer boost is usually needed

    - What if USC-UF played a defensive slugfest without a lot of flash on
    offense....say a 24-14 game..and it comes after OU smashes PennSt in
    Rose Bowl by 45-17....which I personally think could happen.
    The whole world would be whining about OU getting left out of the BCS
    Title game.
     
  18. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    This is a year when no final scenario possibly could have been satisfactory to everyone. To paraphrase the above comment after suggesting 36 different scenarios:

    The whole world would be whining about (insert team name here) being left out of the title game.

    Which is what's happening now and will continue to happen in the future.

    I like George's comments above. They hit home with me. Just when I think I'm leaning toward a playoff, my wise godfather puts it all in the proper perspective.
     
  19. GaterzFan

    GaterzFan New Member

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    Well, one FACT that stands as regards to the 2008 MNC game .... in contrast to any other one-loss BCS conference champ and Texas ...... the winner of the BCSMNCG had at least 1 more win than any of those other BCSConf teams in the discussion. Utah is the only team that has the same number of wins in post bowl season 2008.
     
  20. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    George....good comments and that's why I love this system in lieu of playoffs.

    ND fans are pretty happy right now and full hope for next season.

    In a 16 team playoff format ND was left out...no place to go and no chance for off season happiness. Bowls are good for that and for Joe fan to have a little college football to watch during the holidays.

    Even a team like Texas or USC can be happy they won their games and can be the cock of the walk all off season because they did win a pretty big game in their last and final outing.

    In a playoff there is only a single winner at the end and the rest spend the winter as losers. I'll guarantee you that USC and Texas and Utah feel much better about themselves this morning than does Oklahoma.