The SEC is widely considered the most successful conference widely because of their bowl success (their all-time winning percentage of .530 is often cited above the Pac10s .529. I'm not here to argue the greatness of both. What I am here to state is that we now have a conference that has been in existence for a decade (1999 was their first season)... We now have a sufficient pool of evidence to judge them and their value. -They now have an all-time bowl record of 28-17, which puts them at .622 -The years in which they do well, the major networks write them off as 'not really playing anyone' which ignores the fact they beat Pac10 teams.. (but also serves the double edged purpose of the Pac10 losing to a 'bunch of nobodies) -They have a team who now has the nation's longest bowl winning streak (at 10). -The conference is usually thought of a '3 team conference'(BYU, Utah and TCU), at least in terms of recent write offs of the conference... however, BYU accounts for almost almost a quarter of the conferences bowl losses. -The conference has 4 teams (of 9) with winning bowl records. -3 teams (Utah, UNLV and Wyoming) are unbeaten in bowl games as MWC members. While the bowl success of the SEC and Pac 10 warrant their inclusion in this inbred system.. The fan draw of the Big10 and Big12 teams assure their inclusion... Can someone tell me how or why the ACC and Big East are BCS conference members but not the MWC? Below are the bowl records of each team to date. Some of them are finished for the year while others still have a game pending so these numbers could change.. Still, it won't effect that this should be a conference that is in the BCS and competing for the NC. Utah 10-0 Wyoming 2-0 UNLV 1-0 TCU 6-3 Colorado State 3-4 BYU 3-4 Air Force 1-3 New Mexico 1-3 SDSU 0-0
Make every conference a BCS conference, what does it matter? As it stands now number 1 plays number 2 right? Without a playoff every other bowl doesn't matter much except for their entertainment value.
I agree KP, make em all BCS conferences... but then you run the risk of having a lot more unbeaten BCS teams left out of the title game. This is about more than this fraud of a bowl system though. There is more on the line than 1 vs 2... which I think past years has shown us clearly is not the case... Its about that cash grab.. the big boys keeping their green coming in and excluding others from even wearing the jacket.
roll em all you want. If the big12 were treated the same way... or better yet... someone just said... ND, its conference or no bcs/title game for you.. you'd go bat **** and you know it.
2 non-BCS conf champions are in the BCS and you are complaining about a cash grab...come on man. The mechanism is there for the non-BCS teams they are not getting slighted.
Are their conferences splitting the pie the same way that the BCS conferences splitting it up? Are they entitled to the same and equal opportunity to compete for the National Championship? 7-5 in a BCS conference will almost certainly send you bowling. 7-5 in a non-BCS conference and you're praying for BCS conference teams to lose. Tell me, honestly, top to bottom.. do you really think if we held an "ACC/Mountain West or Big East/Mountain West" challenge the way they do in basketball... that either the ACC or Big East would come out on top? I'm not talking about this year, or last year. I am talking about year in and year out for a solid decade now. You have to ask yourself... if it isn't such a big deal.. then why do they need a mechanism? Why not just let them in? They had to go unbeaten just to get the same ticket that the winner of the Clemson-Georgia Tech game got.. You don't see a problem with that?
Hey I'm not against the Mtn West getting an automatic bid, but they are getting more money than ever from the bowl system...so they have to feel that's progress. As far as equal chance in the polls, that's a people and perception problem. The perception is changing slowly, TCU came very close to the BCS championship game.
The bottom line is that they still aren't in and they should be. The public/poll perception gets changed in a hurry if the BCS itself takes the steps to include them in the process. Notice, I'm not asking for the WAC here. The evidence on the field is CLEAR that the MWC is a BCS worthy conference. You can point to baby steps in progress, but this is insane. How many undefeated teams can these guys keep cranking out with no shot at a title? I see that Utah learned their lessons from the Florida debacle. When UF made their empty gesture of 'we'll play you next year', it put Utah in a situation in which they'd have to end rivalry games and move heaven/earth to make such a game happen... Only at the Swamp under Florida's terms.. By not selling their soul to pursue such insulting gestures, Utah wound up taking the heat as somehow 'ducking' Florida.. You've even seen Bill (or was it Dave?) post as much here. They've sold their soul and restructured their annual rivalry game with Utah State to make room for the Irish next year. It would be one thing when you're talking about including the WAC. By and large, what have they really proven past Boise State and Fresno State? I'd agree with that... At the same time, you can't say the same thing for the MWC. You have a long history of onfield results that show you they can compete with, and beat, the biggest of big boys. They can win on the road against the Pac10 and the SEC. They win their bowl games. By every metric that we use to measure greatness in college football, these guys pass the test with flying colors. They should be a BCS conference if we are to continue using this fraud of a system.. So why aren't they?
Quite simply, I agree Corey. I'd take the top 3 from the Mountain West over the top 3 from the ACC and Big East in a hearbeat. I think they stack up well versus the Pac-10, Big 12, and Big 10 nicely as well. I think there's a good chance all 3 could beat LSU (3rd best in the SEC) as well. They should get an automatic big, IMO.
In the past 6 seasons, they have produced 3 undefeated teams that stood absolutely ZERO chance at winning the NC. Starting with the 2004 season (Urban's last at Utah), the MWC members have beaten: Texas A&M Arizona 3 times, with once @Zona North Carolina Pitt (bowl) Georgia Tech (bowl) UCLA 4 times including 2 bowl games Louisville 2 times Michigan @ Michigan Oregon State 2 times including a bowl Alabama (bowl) Cal 2 times, once in a bowl and once @ Cal Ole Miss 2 times (once @ Ole Miss) Virginia 2 times (once @ Uva) Tennessee @ UT Northwestern 2 times Washington 2 times @ Washington Notre Dame 2 times, once @ ND Oregon (bowl) Oklahoma 2 times (once @Norman and another at Arlington, TX) Colorado 2 times @ Boulder Arizona State @ ASU Iowa State 2 times, once in a bowl Baylor 2 times (once @ Baylor) Texas Tech Stanford 2 times, once @ Stanford Clemson @ Clemson That is 44 wins against teams from BCS conferences or ND, which is a BCS member without being in a conference, in 6 football seasons. Now I know you'll point to Baylor and say so what.. but there's way more Oklahoma, Oregon, Alabama and Michigan type of games than there are Iowa State's. Interesting enough.. Wyoming in that time frame has beaten Tennessee in Knoxville, but is also 2-0 vs Ole Miss (winning both at home and down on the grove). Wyoming is traditionally at our near the bottom of the MWC.
As I said I don't have a problem with them getting an automatic BCS bowl bid, they are a very good conference. I'm just seeing progress towards an automatic bid and they (the MtnWest) needs to continue to pressure the BCS for that bid. It won't make the voters suddenly see them as better than a B10 undefeated team, but that's a human/free will issue that has to be solved over time. But as far as unbeaten teams not winning NC's, check the history and you'll find lots of unbeaten teams that didn't win the NC or really have a shot. JoePa has about 3 unbeaten teams that were never considered worthy, Auburn of course, and I'm sure there are others.
Oh I know the history and a few of those schedules don't hold up to the ones the MWC teams are playing. We've discussed Auburn ad nauseum both here and in the South. That was a team absolutely SMOKED by USC the 2 previous years, who wound up starting the year in the polls behind 2 teams (was it USC and OU?) who never lost a game. That was also an Auburn team that played The Citadel, La Tech and La Monroe. In the previous years in which they played GTech and USC, they got their ass whipped. They beat Va Tech in the Sugar Bowl 16-13. I'd say they screaming and rolling around over ONE unbeaten (who by all measure was not as good as the 2 in the title game) from the SEC has worked out nice as they seem to be in the NC game by default now.. even 2 loss SEC champs get the tie-breaker to go to the title game now. The MWC has had 3 unbeatens in 6 years. JoePa's unbeaten teams had dinosaurs as mascots and they had teams like Miami (FL) and Kansas State on the schedule (2 of the historic all-time losing-est programs at the time). JoePa's teams were also before the vaunted 'BCS system' was put into place to bring us a 'real 1 vs 2' title game.. I know you keep citing the voter issue, but a big part of the 'human element' is actually effected by the human element that is the BCS. So long as they continue to vote to keep the MWC out... there is a perception among fans and media alike that they are somehow not as legitimate.. The house boy was still a slave no matter how much better he may have been treated... Wrong is wrong.
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I don't have a problem with the MWC being in. If the Big East "qualifies", it's hard to argue against the MWC which is at least as good if not better. (BTW, I wouldn't mention beating A&M during the 00's as a quality win!)
As far as the perception thing, back in the day when DKR was at Texas and he won 3 NC's and came really close several other times the perception was that Penn State didn't play a good schedule, where as Texas played a tough SWC schedule (you know Rice, SMU, Baylor,etc). Penn State was able to come to the Cotton Bowl and get some good wins against SWC teams, but yet the perception remained. I don't know what changed it but eventually Penn State got it's due and that was before they joined the B10.
Scott, Dude, I wouldn't kick you in the cajones like that. I was counting wins vs BCS conference 'foes'.. didn't break down who was good, bad or in between.