Charlie is in way over his head here. Every week he sends an unprepared, confused and unmotivated team out on the field and then throws dirt on them with his inept coaching.
George, I realize that was a painful admission about Charlie, but I am inclined to agree. Next year will tell the story for certain? (His recruits) Don
Why next year? I would have fired him the minute he went for it on 4th down. The team who hires Paul Johnson is next to get the hottest coach available.
So Paul Johnson is the hot coach now. How hot was he when they lost to 1-AA Delaware last week? You want him in Miami or Georgia, then you can have them. He does a great job for Navy. If he's smart that's where he'll stay. Charlie will be fine. This year is just a blip in the road for Notre Dame.
First... <t>Congrats to Navy as I have great respect for the job they do. AF and Army as well.<br/> <br/> This is the poorest ND team I have ever seen and I am 58 and an Irish fanatic since 13 so I have seen the good and bad. What went on in SB yesterday was beyond watchable ( is that a real word?). <br/> <br/> ND has had tow weeks to get ready for the option, two weeks. Somone correct me but was the first Navy put at the two minute mark in regulation? Not one guy in the front seven that can make a play not one. It takes the insertion of Neal or Smith (freshmen) to make a play. Brockington was so bad yesterday I actually felt sorry for him. Ryan at DE was so lost on the replays he must wonder if he really was at ND stadium Saturday. The missed tackles and lack of speed to cut off the wide stuff must have made Corwin Brown wonder how did these guys get full rides to this school. By the way Corwin no matter you get an "F" as well as there was no adjustment the entire game. You had to be praying the commits aren't seeing what is happening. My son who knows football commented "Dad they just can't stop anything" all afternoon. Lets hope we have real character kids that will stick to their commits and actually sign in February.<br/> Not much to say about the offense as this has been a season long nightmare that will continue. Did anyone notice the pressure Sharpley was under all day? Navy had six sacks coming into the game and were beating these cement shoed O-Linemen all afternoon. Duncan was off the charts awful again on the replays I watched and please someone don't tell me they will be better with more experience come next year, please. That bunch has to be blown up. CW called an abysmal game Sat and for the first time I have serious doubts about him calling plays. We won't even mention the fourth and 15 fake or the sweep to end the game plus others.<br/> Two kickers on full rides and we don't take a final shot from 41 to end the misery. Spare me please.<br/> We are at rock bottom and Corey we can put the run the table stuff away as we have a great chance to eek one out versus poor Duke to finish 2-10 IMO. My greatest fear with all this is what do you look forward to come August besides a great recruiting class? They are freshmen and can only do so much. Yes it is a start but will Weiss have time in spite of his extension? I'm not sure if we aren't at least competitive next year.</t>
I played an coached the option offense for years. It is rare when all three options are available every play but that is what Navy had going for it yesterday. I cringed every time Corwin Brown blitzed his outside LBs because it was a guaranteed 10-12 yard gain for the pitch back every time he did it. The reason Navy had everything going is that the Irish defense does not rotate behind the blitz.
I read <t>somewhere that Charlie just didn't think the kicker would make it. He had watched him in warmups and didn't believe he had the leg to make it from there into the wind. Given the ups and downs of our FG unit this year, I can't say I blame him.<br/> <br/> That being said, kick the damn ball. Put kids in a position to win.<br/> <br/> The Irish haven't played well all year, but to date in his 3 years I have never said he didn't put our kids in a position to win. We just haven't executed. Be that due to coaching or talent, they didn't get it done. Watch the tapes, however, the call is correct for the defense.. We just aren't doing it... But not going for the FG is the first time I openly said.. THAT is the wrong call.<br/> <br/> As for Paul Johnson.. he isn't the hot coach of the day. He has been a FANTASTIC coach at every stop along his career.<br/> <br/> Join in the frustration over this team if you want to, but don't dare belittle what Johnson has done or could do. He's had a variety of offenses and has won at multiple programs. His offenses have always been great going back to his day as an OC, and he's been a winner as an HC regardless of the program coming in. That guy can flat coach.</t>
I'd give Navy Weis, most of his coaching staff and our entire O-Line for paul Johnson right now! :wink:
something else to chew on <t>while the jury is out on Charlie, and ND fans are reeling...myself included. I think we need some perspective.<br/> <br/> I would venture to say one of the greatest coaches over to blow a whistle is John McKay at USC. He prowled the sidelines for the Trojans for 16 years. He had losing seasons during his first two years. That's 2 losing seasons in 16 years..impressive, still, he had them. He lost 3 or more games in 7 of those seasons.. it was almost 8 but a 7-2-1 finish in '65 keeps that number of 7.<br/> <br/> He finished undefeated three times, with one of those seasons including a tie.<br/> <br/> <br/> In today's 'info now' world of immediate stats and non-stop comparisons that are thrown at you via the ENTERTAINMENT sports media...<br/> <br/> Keep in mind that ND and college football HOF coach Ara Parseghian was 3-6-2 vs John McKay. McKay overall was 8-6-2 vs the Irish. That means that HOF coach McKay was 2-3 against ND coaching legends Joe Kuharich, Hugh Devore and Dan Devine in his first season. BTW, the 3 ND wins were under Kuharich/Devore.<br/> <br/> Great coaches can have bad, even nightmare season, I want to see how he comes back next year for things to be telling.<br/> <br/> Firing him at the end of this season will complete the "Ivy leaguing" of ND football started under Monk.</t>
Can't fire him now. Makes no sense. But next year he will have three and a half of his own recruiting classes and the Ty excuses will be forever silenced. Our schedule next year is also much lighter. If Weis can't find his way to 8 wins next year and a lesser bowl appearance then I would cut ties.
.. <t>I think you and I are on the same page here George.<br/> <br/> He's bottomed. Even losing to Duke or the Zoomies couldn't make this year worse..<br/> <br/> He needs to start that learning process for 08 right now.<br/> <br/> If he fails to win 8 (and I'd actually say 9 or more) next year, then he's in deep sh*t.</t>
:idea: I still support Coach Weis and I think he's doing a good job. I can't think of anyone else who could have won more games under these circumstances... Even Petros Papadakis, the USC tv color broadcaster, is beginning to make outraged comments about Tyrone Willingham's Pontius Pilate act. It seems that TW has been claiming that he can't win in Seattle because the cupboard was left bare for him and he's going to need "more than three years to turn it around." Petros (a former Trojan player) went off during the Oregon State telecast; " Nothing that Willingham has been saying sits well with me." "He claims that he's not responsible for what's been happening in South Bend and he claims that he's not responsible for what's happening in Seattle." "Well excuse me...what was his job?" Petros- Who do you guys want as your coach...Les Miles? We've got a good coach and we need to support him. He's not the guy who damaged the program. He's the guy who's putting the pieces back togther...
I think he should have kicked the field goal. I think we should have been better this year than we are, that's Charlies fault. That said I'm not calling for his head, unlike the two guys before him his recruiting is getting better and he should have more talent on the team next year than we've had in a long time. It will still be largely young talent but he should have a good year, 8 or 9 wins and we should get back to looking like a well coached team. If that doesn't happen, I'll start to waver. I'm hoping that he's learned some valuable lessons this year and will make some changes to how he approaches things. I hope he's learned the value of the unspoken word. I also wouldn't be surprised if we lost all our remaining games. Air Force is a better team that Navy and I think Stanford probably is also, I'm not sure about Duke but I am not taking them for granted. This will be the roughest off season in a long time for me. I hope we will be much better next year but my faith is shaken to a degree. Terry
We still dredge up Willingham quotes to distract ourselves from the carnage that is right in front of us. The fact is that this team has gotten progressively worse in each of CW's three years here. At this exact point in time his record is almost exactly the same as TW's. Face it fellas. It wasn't that long ago that not a single one of us would have ever thought this level of ineptitude would have been attainable by an Irish team.
All the critics say that Charlie won with Ty's players. Then I guess that Ty's early success can be attributed to the players that Bob Davie recruited. Stick with Charlie. He'll get this mess turned around. PJ in Jersey
PJ.... <r>Lets hope you are correct as after the Stanford game there is only one direction to go. Still cannot believe what I watched Saturday and then contrast that with what came on my TV next, Bama/LSU, Oregon/ASU. <br/> How sobering that was. <E>:roll:</E></r>
I can believe it <t>Navy has been close before against much better ND teams. While Charlie came in and waxed Navy the first two years, there had been close calls to ending this streak before:<br/> <br/> 2003: Notre Dame 27 Navy 24 (Ty)<br/> 2002: Notre Dame 30 Navy 27 (Ty)<br/> 1999: Notre Dame 28 Navy 24 (Davie)<br/> 1997: Notre Dame 21 Navy 17 (Davie)<br/> 1984: Notre Dame 18 Navy 17 (Faust)<br/> 1976: Notre Dame 27 Navy 21 (Devine)<br/> 1974: Notre Dame 14 Navy 6 (Ara)<br/> <br/> Those are just the games I found that were decided by a TD or less. That doesn't account for the games where Navy gave us fits until we pulled away in the 4th quarter.<br/> <br/> Its one of those things that had to happen, it just had to, but I can't believe I saw it with my own eyes. I sat in front of my couch, crouched down like a catcher with my hands over my face for probably 20 minutes after the game. Bliss stood there looking at me asking if I was ok. I literally couldn't speak. (for once) So don't get me wrong, I was just as shocked as anyone. But looking at it analytically with some time passed... it had to happen. We're terrible. It happened.</t>
Corey... <t>Crouched like a catcher then you and my son needed to be in the same room as he was a catcher his entire baseball career and was in the same position at games end although I told him "you can forget beating them if it goes OT as they will bleed us to death like they have all afternoon."<br/> <br/> Then Sunday I go over to my son-in-laws house to watch the Colts/Pats game on the NFL package as this city gets the great Oakland/Texans game only and he has a couple friends over and I have to catch the barbs about ND from those guys. I've gritted my teeth so much I need to call Terry and make an appointment for some work. This is beyond ugly. I keep telling myself we will dig out of it its just I want to live long enough to see it.<br/> <br/> The only thing that saved my weekend was Dallas punishing Philly who can never lose enough games for me.</t>
:roll: Nothing that us fans are going through can compare to the suffering of the players and coaches: especially the seniors. I have no sympathy for any of us. The die was cast when Coach Holtz was fired for no damn reason at all, after having the rug slowly pulled out from under him... What we need now is to support our coaches and players when they need it most. Forget that magic wand stuff. Winning begins with being a winner and winners support the team. ........JO'Co