What it is...

Why is it whenever Notre Dame qualifies for a bowl game, including the BCS, they are immediately guaranteed a spot? Why does Notre Dame have an exclusive and one of a kind television package with NBC worth millions? Why was the Notre Dame Football Program valued at $101,000,000.00 by Forbes.com in 2007 (followed by Texas at $92,000,000.00)?

Because Notre Dame is the most significant College Football Program ever. Love them or hate them, they are at the top of College Football Culture.

http://www.secsportsfan.com/notre-dame-is-the-greatest-alltime-college-football-program.html

 

Wow! That's the most convincing commentary ever....and on an SEC-related publication, no less. It's nice to see someone outside the ND family who respects what our program has accomplished in its storied history.

That's not to take away from Alabama, whose program also has a monumental history and tradition. They are not exactly "second place" as the writer indicates. It's not a race to see whose program is the greatest. Alabama, like ND, is the greatest in the minds and hearts of its fans, and that's all that really matters.

 

I would say I definitely agree...up until 1988 anyway. ( Faust years excluded)

In the last 20 years ND has been rather mundane as a program and I think most ND fans would agree with that.

Let's see what happens in the next 20.....

 

That's not the point of the commentary. He is opining that ND is "at the top of College Football culture".....present tense.......last 15 (not 20) years notwithstanding.

No question that the last 15 years have been disappointing, but that emphasizes the writer's point. Despite the recent "mundane" performance,the program remains the most recognizable name on the college football landscape for enduring reasons that supercede the less-than-stellar eras in its history.

It's actually a very good objective commentary, the facts of which can withstand any attempt to minimize its significance.

 

Does ND have football culture presently? Absolutely....the last 15 years notwithstanding.

But you have to wonder if another 15 years go by without significant improvement will the aura of ND be significantly tarnished.

 

Who knows? I guess we'll have to wait to find out.

 

on an SEC board, that review will be as welcomed as a warm fart in a crowded elevator. I have to say though.. My ND gear will draw a response regardless of where I am in the South.

 

Why up until 1988? Why stop there? Not that we've been any great shakes lately (by our standards) but that is an odd year to cut off ND as being a major player in football.

Here is a look of years after that date in which you didn't think they were worth mentioning. The year's in which ND was a major player in the national scene are in bold:

1989- ND finishes 12-1 and beats unbeaten Colorado in the Orange Bowl. The NC goes to Miami who finished 11-1 after beating 10-2 Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, but had beaten the Irish head to head earlier in the year (27-10 at Miami). We're told head to head is what counts.. Irish fans accept that and move on.

1990-ND finishes 9-3 after losing to unbeaten National Champion Colorado in the Orange Bowl 10-9. This game is famous to ND fans because of the 'phantom clip' that brought back a late 4th qtr punt return for a TD by Rocket Ismeal.

1991- ND finishes 10-3 beating the Florida Gators in the Sugar Bowl, forever known as the 'Cheerio Bowl' due to Spurrier's pre-game comments regarding ND.

1992-ND finished the year 10-1-1. ND capped the year by beaten undefeated Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl. Alabama rolled onto the NC that year going 13-0 and putting up maybe the greatest defense I'd ever seen.

1993-ND finishes the year 11-1 and furious. The National Title goes to Florida State who finished 12-1 but LOST to Notre Dame at Notre Dame earlier in the year. Now the argument is that 'ND lost last' which is contrary to every reason given by the media as to why Miami won the NC in 1988. (ND had more wins, played Miami on the road etc) Both teams beat an unbeaten opponent in their bowl game (ND beat Texas A&M in the Cotton while FSU beat Nebraska in the Orange)

1994-ND finishes a disaster season at 6-5-1 with a butt kicking at the hands of Colorado in the Fiesta Fiasco. This is the beginning of the decline.

1995-ND finishes 9-3 with an Orange Bowl loss to FSU 31-26.

1996-ND finishes 8-3 and chooses to not go to a bowl game in Lou Holtz' final season after USC ends ND's long winning streak vs them.

1997-ND hires Bob Davie.. hilarity ensues for Irish haters as ND goes 7-6 with a bowl loss to LSU in Shreveport. The loss is particularly discouraging as ND easily handled that LSU team in Baton Rouge earlier in the season.

1998-ND was on the verge of a Bowl Alliance/BCS birth when Boob Davie struck again. He orders the QB to take a safety (something they had inexplicably never practiced).. QB Jarious Jackson gets hurt and ND loses on the road to USC 10-0... and then in their bowl game to GTech to finish 9-3.

1999-ND goes 5-7 and Bob Davie is officially dead man walking.

2000-ND goes to a Bowl Alliance bowl (Fiesta) after a 9-2 regular season in which they lost in OT to Nebraska (27-24) and at Michigan State (27-21). ND fans hate to remember that it was Bob Davie who started the struggles with MSU having never beaten them in 5 years. ND is hammered by Oregon State in the Fiesta Bowl. How Davie was retained is beyond anyone's imagination other than the fact they went to the Feista. Davie lost the ND fans forever earlier in the year when he had Nebraska on the ropes and in good field position to go for a game winning FG. He played for OT instead taking a knee 3 straight times.

2001-ND goes 5-6 and it is finally Bye bye Bob.

2002-ND hires Tyrone Willingham (who somehow never played with Bob Davie's players according to the media) and ND has the 'Return To Glory' year in which the Irish finished 10-3. The Irish ran through their early traditional powers (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue) and beat new comers like bowl teams such as Maryland and Pittsburgh... culminating in a thrashing of Florida State in Tallahassee. But something 'broke' in that game for those of us in attendance and ND lost its QB in the next game losing to Boston College. The Irish started 8-0 but finished 2-3 over the next 5 losing their Gator Bowl appearance.

2003-Ty shows us his 'true color' and goes 5-7. Greens fees go up as course time gets scarce in South Bend. Recruiting vanishes off the radar.

2004-ND goes 6-6 and it is 'Bye bye Ty'. The Irish go to a bowl game losing to Oregon State. Recruiting again is non-existent.

2005-ND returns to the BCS. They lose to Michigan State (come on!) and the infamous "Bush push" game to USC. The Sugar Bowl loss to Ohio State should have been a warning to ND fans that Charlie was winning with a skeleton crew and 1.5 classes of football players. It wasn't.

2006-ND goes 10-3 and returns to the BCS once again. Although ND fans should be happier about back-to-back BCS seasons, most have started to pick up on the overall lack of talented depth and athletes in the program. ND handled some good teams that year but their 3 losses showed they didn't have elite athletes.. Still, they were in the national picture all year as a major player.

2007-The 1 in the 1.5 classes is gone and it shows. ND goes 3-9. ND's lack of talent is clear. All that is in the program is the patchwork class that Charlie threw together in his first season. There is young talent, but it is a sad state of affairs when the best players on the team are clearly freshman and a handful (meaning 1 or 2) Juniors.

2008-ND finishes 7-6 and is all over the place during the season. What is clear to some is that the team is made up entirely of freshman and sophomores. Ty's lack of OL recruiting is still showing as the team is still having guys learn on the job, rather than competing and winning a spot as they do in other programs. We look like a JV team with an abundance of really young talent. ND appears to be loading up with athletic freshman on defense and they are building NFL caliber weapons on offense.. Now... can anybody block?

I think you'll see in that time frame in which you discount them as not being relevant to the national picture since 1988, that just doesn't hold water. We were clearly in the NC hunt for a good 5 years past your cut off date and we've been horrifically inconsistent since then.

As for where the future of ND football lays.. I can tell you that we have some offensive weapons. In fact, we've got a lot of them. Our issue the past 2 seasons was lack of talent in depth, lack of senior leadership ans crappy blocking (which will happen when you recruit virtually no OLs for 3 years).. Charlie is entering his 5th year and that situation should have rectified itself by now. We shall see.

The defense is suppose to be fast and athletic. They have been changing the types of defensive recruits the past few years. They will be young there still, but they will be fast and hit.

But make no mistake.. our 'crappy' years are nothing more than inconsistent and would easily be considered a 'good years' for the vast majority of the programs out there...which sorta backs the claim of the author

 

I did agree with Sid that those 5 years should be included so it only goes back 15 years...it being the nondescript seasons with lack of quality bowl wins...etc.

Then again there were those Faust years but hey...I am a Lou Holtz admirer so I say he expunged what Gerry did to the program.

 

I would posit that Ty was far more damaging than anything Gerry Faust did. Faust loved ND and he recruited well.

Ty didn't care about ND and he didn't recruit at all.

In this day and age of scholarship restrictions, those kids don't have to beg to come to ND anymore. I still LOL at all the whining about Charlie's arrogance, when I can't recall a single person more arrogant or self-serving at ND than Ty Willingham.

BTW-nice shift.. now we go from 'no bowl wins' to 'no quality bowl wins'.

You will continue to marginalize no matter what...

 

How about....15 years of pure mediocrity with very few bowl wins and no bowl wins of any consequence and in fact didn't ND just stop a horrendous bowl losing streak?

How's that for marginalization.

In any event I really don't think you are on the other side of the fence with regard to the last 15 years of Irish football and I was just stating the obvious.

I am not saying there are going to be 15 more years of the same but the heat is on Chollie to turn the tide....so to speak.... :wink:

 

My point is that as 'bad' as we are during this 15 year stretch, we've still been to a bowl 9 times. They've been to 4 major BCS Bowls and that 15 year time span includes a year in which ND was clearly eligible for a good bowl at 8-3 but chose not to go bowling.

So you're talking 10 bowl worthy seasons in a 15 year run...and this is our low point... You are making my case that the author is right.

You can claim that it is 'all about bowl wins' and that is certainly the SEC mindset. I understand and appreciate that.

I just hope you are as consistent about valuing seasons by post-season production when it comes time for a playoff in Division 1.

 

You're correct by ND standards it hasn't been up to snuff but I will venture without research that ND was the beneficiary of that marketing power in a couple of those BCS bowl invites ....maybe even as it relates to their deal they have/had cut to get themselves invited to the BCS party.

Otherwise I concede that a big reason for the bowl defeats is that they were invited in somewhat over their heads a few times because of their rep and their deal.

There have been worse programs over the last 15 years for sure but on the other hand the Irish in that time have done nothing to burnish their golden rep.

 

Fortunately we have the 1992 Sugar Bowl memories to sustain us. 8)

 

They haven't helped add to the great name, but they haven't totally burned it down like it is portrayed in the media (and apparently here). When your darkest hours are still 'good to very good' seasons for other 'top' programs.. you're doing something right.

Numbers and stats are relative to each person's perspective. As dominant as Florida has been recently, since 1999:

Florida has lost 3 or more games in 7 of 10 seasons.
Florida has lost 4 or more games in 5 of 10 seasons.
Only 3 times in 10 years has Florida not lost 3 or more games, and they've won the NC in 2 of those 3 years..having lost in each of those 2 title runs.

When you take out the name Florida Gators and replace them with Wiggly Widgets or whatever you want to.. you see that you guys have been pretty damned hit or miss as well. But when you hit, you hit it out of the park. While Urban has won 2 NCs in 4 years, he also posted 9-4 and 9-3 records as well...

 

George that '92 Irish team was probably the best ND team in recent memory and much better than that last NC team in '88....

....yeah.....I said it....that's right....... 8) :wink:

 

Corey....if we include ND '88 thru '93 then I say we go back to 1990 for Florida....

Fair enough? 8)

Hey my comments here are not intended to be a general rag on Notre Dame but instead I intended to put things in a more recent perspective with regard to the article in the topic post.

I would be the first to get on the bandwagon if ND had been generally rolling along like the olden days but the reality is they have fallen off from those days.

This year's schedule is set up about as nicely as Florida's is however so the opportunity is there to begin a true return to glory.

Let's see how it pans out.