Breaking my silence just to ask one question..... and hoping for civil and truthful answers: If mail in ballots are postmarked on or before November 3rd then why wouldn't every American from the Supreme Court on down to farmer Joe want those votes to be duly counted toward determining our next president? Anything else seems designed to be dishonest and reeks of election rigging. Brett Kavanaugh foreshadows how Supreme Court could disrupt vote counting - CNNPolitics And this is why I need to stay off this board because nothing inside me sees a defense for these kinds of manipulative untrue statements that continually spew forth from Trump: "At a rally in Allentown, Pennsylvania, on Tuesday, President Donald Trump said something incredible -- even by his standards. Recounting how his campaign had to move the site of the rally to comply with Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf's Covid-19 protocols, Trump said this: "I'll remember it, Tom. I'm gonna remember it, Tom. 'Hello, Mr. President, this is Governor Wolf, I need help, I need help.' You know what? These people are bad." Let's be very clear what Trump is doing here: He is threatening to withhold federal aid -- or some sort of other assistance -- the next time Pennsylvania needs it because the state's governor, according to the President, made it difficult to find a site to hold a campaign rally. Yes, really. Oh, and by the way, a spokeswoman for Wolf's office insisted to Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that Trump's version of this story is simply wrong -- that the governor's office sent a letter to Trump's campaign earlier in the year requesting that they adhere to social distancing and masks guidelines, but that's it. "Outside of that, the administration has had no contact with the Trump campaign about its events," wrote Wolf spokeswoman Sarah Goulet in an email to the Tribune-Review. "The Trump campaign is under no obligation to reach out to the administration when it is planning visits. We believe the campaign works directly with the owners of property or local officials when planning. Again, what the president said is inaccurate."
I know I want all the votes to be counted, always have and always will. However in every election since I was eligible to vote issues have come up where people complained they were denied the right or that there vote wasn't counted. With mail in votes, people don't always read the directions, in Texas you have to sign your ballot, people forget to do that, it's the law. So should that law be ignored? How about people who wait till the last minute and can't make it to a mailbox or drop off point before the deadline, is it fair that their vote not be counted. How about those who show up at the polls after they have closed for say 10 minutes and the poll workers won't let them vote? How about our military voters, in every election there seems to be a mess up with some of the ballots from overseas, shouldn't they be allowed to vote even if through no fault of their own they can't get ballots in on time? How about hanging chads, a ballot designed by democrats that had problems. Shouldn't those people have been given new ballots and allowed to vote again with better ballots to make sure their ballot was counted properly. Bottom line I doubt if we have ever had an election where no voters have encountered problems, many of them due to them not knowing the rules for voting or the time/day that polls are open or techincal issues with voting machines. Or quite frankly showing up to vote with out having registered to vote. But in this particular issue,it's a strawman IMHO. There will be a record number of people cast their vote and even with some peoples ballots falling through some procedural crack there will still be a record number of voters and Biden is going to win by a large margin that will not be able to be contested IMHO.
In the last midterm election Republicans were the winners in three House seats after counting on election day. Then afterward Democrats went vote harvesting and showed up after election day with more ballots and changed the results of the election. That to me is ******** but that's the type of crap you get when one party controls the whole state government. If there's questionable ballots that swing the election in a critical state, the issue could eventually end up in the Supreme Court. And now you know why there was such bitterness about the nomination and confirmation of Justice Barrett. Kind of puts a damper on Dem plans.
For me..... if a registered voter get's his or her mail-in ballot postmarked by election date or by a deadline set before the election and has filled it out correctly then that ballot should always without fail be counted and anyone that endeavors to purposely cause it not to be counted is guilty of election fraud and tampering.
No answer AJ on your views about the counting of legitimate votes? Maybe you agree that as in the case of confirming another conservative SCOTUS justice one week before an election in which the incumbent conservative president is behind by 10 percentage points in the polls that if legitimate votes can be thrown away and a winner declared early by said Supreme court that all is fair.... just because they can?
I don't know anybody who actually wants to have legitimate votes disallowed. Can you come up with some extreme examples, like what if the votes are lost and aren't found till after an election is done. Should the results be nullified till those votes are counted? How long afterwards should you go, 1 week, 2 weeks, a month, 2 months, 6 months? If you say 1 month, what about if they are found 1 month and a day. If you say a week what about 8 days? Where do you draw the line? As far as the confirmation process, you might not like it but it is 100% legal and constitutional. You can call it hypocritical, you can call it anything you want, but it's constitutional and legal.
Here's Bobda's post. "This is “Good Bye Cruel World” post #6. My over/under on the return date is 3 days." This topic started on the 26th. So 8 days. Might be a new record, or broken record no pun intended.
Bottom line is there are rules, and the rules must be followed if they are legal and constitutional. If somebody doesn't like the rules and challenges them then the courts get involved and just because somebody files a suit it doesn't mean they are right. Just like back in the Gore/Bush election, there was a democrat dominated Supreme Court who finally said enough and let the results stand. If not we might still be counting those disputed ballots. Since it was a democrat dominated court at the time it's hard to imagine they wanted anything other than a Gore victory but yet they said enough, he lost.
Also Dave, step carefully here. If you want to start throwing around a lot of pejoratives then I'm going to be deleting your posts. If you want to calmly defend your point fine, otherwise just stay away.
The point, to me, is that Kavanaugh is saying that the judicial branch has no right to rewrite constitutional election laws legitimately passed by the state legislature. We are all for legitimate votes to all be counted. Some states want those votes to be returned (not postmarked) by election day, or three days after, or whatever. Yeah, my tax returns only have to be postmarked...but my credit card companies want my payment in hand by the due date...not postmarked by the due date. It is my responsibility to get them there in time.
So the state courts are trying to allow for the massive amounts of extra mail-in ballots in Pa. to be legitimately counted but conservative justice Kavanaugh wants the states to stick to what worked before this pandemic now raging out of control again but certainly is "rounding that turn" according to the incessant message from DJT. In 2000 there was no pre-emptive attempt to control or fix the hanging chad issue in Florida that was a post election day squabble. In the case of mail-in ballots states are trying to prevent legitimate votes from being left out of the election results and it appears that the GOP including Kavanaugh don't want those votes counted. "As far as the confirmation process, you might not like it but it is 100% legal and constitutional. You can call it hypocritical, you can call it anything you want, but it's constitutional and legal." Let's remember that quote when the Democratic controlled house, senate and Biden enact laws that GOP members and supporters here all squawk about. In other words.... it might not be morally right or ethical.... and the opposite gentlemanly precedent was set by Obama's administration..... but it's OK because they can.
It's politics, lots of stuff to squawk about, every day locally, statewide and in the Congress. Democrat Harry Reid changed the rules regarding votes on Judges, at the time it was a political decision that favored what democrats wanted to do, now that same rule bites them in the ass. It's politics, I'm sure I railed against it back then and conveniently am for it right now. When courts get involved we're talking about enforcing the current law, if you don't like the way courts rule on the law it doesn't mean that there is something nefarious going down. No doubt liberal judges have ruled in ways that upset many if not all conservatives, and vice versa. It's the way things are done, maybe state legislatures need to be better at writing laws regarding the elections. It's a fight we go through all the time. A vote is legitimate only if follows all the rules and states can only count the votes that arrive timely however that is defined. They can't just make up things as they go along. People have to be aware of the rules, if the rules in your state say they have to be in by a certain date and you take your legitimate vote to the mailbox the night before you're an idiot who doesn't deserve to have your vote counted. Just like if you show up at 7:15 to vote at a polling place that closes at 7PM. I got my mail ballot a month ago, if I waited till this Sunday to mail it, it's not getting their in time and I'm an idiot for not having filled it out and mailed it in time to get their on time. If for some reason I can't fillout my ballot till Sunday night then maybe I should just vote in person, or should have voted early in person. Millions of Texans voted in person already. Millions of people all over the country have voted in person already, polling places apparently are doing a great job of social distancing and as far as I know there are no outbreaks of Covid from voting in person.
This election is not going to be stolen from Biden. That's a fact jack. The media/demcrats have taken every opportunity to stir up passions over Trump stealing the election, they have tried to make a case that if he loses that he won't leave the White House, a post election Coup attempt I guess. Constant nagging about voter suppression. I live in a previously super red state and we have so many different ways you can vote, drive through, early voting, more days of early voting, more places to early vote, hell we have some early voting places that stay open till very late. We never in the past had to have independent drop off locations for mail votes, but democrats have drummed up a conspiracy over the Post Office being under Trump control so votes will be conveniently lost or dumped. If you didn't find a way to vote in Texas you are just too freakin' lazy or stupid to get out and vote.
Again you avoid my point...Kavanaugh doesn't want the states to "stick" to anything. He wants them to pass their own damn laws governing elections (like the constitution says). He says it is not up to the judiciary to pass new rules because they don't like the laws. It is not up to the courts to allow for the massive amounts of mail in ballots...it is up to the legislature to pass or correct their laws and it is up to the voters to follow them...they aren't that hard for heaven's sake.
Plenty of quotations from Trump himself in this article about him not accepting election results and using a 9 member Supreme Court to decide the election. I don't make this stuff up..... just listen to what he says.... decipher it and then make up your mind what his intentions are. Trump on peaceful transition if he loses: 'Get rid of the ballots' and 'there won't be a transfer'
He can say whatever he wants but if he loses he's out, he will not be able to hang on to the Presidency, and I wouldn't support it. If there are lawsuits, like in 2000, then they will be fast tracked and we will have a certified result before it's time for him to leave and Biden to be sworn in and move in. There is just no post election Coup possible, he doesn't have an Army that will step in and back him like they do in banana republics. He can gripe, piss, moan, all he wants but unless he can prove something in the courts he's gone. I hope he doesn't cause a forceful eviction from the White House.' Plus I expect the Biden victory to be significant such that it will fruitless to try and challenge some states results.
I do agree the Biden win will be significant but Trump's rhetoric of the past few weeks has stoked his more radical base and they will believe whatever he tells them.... he can do no wrong with them. And it's apparent that he feels he will have the Supreme Court to assist him in his election theft as well. It's a train wreck just waiting to happen...... and it will be a black eye on America and our democracy if it goes down that way.
I really think you are worrying about things that just aren't going to happen. Not to mention with all the rioting we've had and still going on...we don't have any more eyes left to blacken. If somehow Trump were to win, and I went to bed in 2016 expecting to wake up to HRC as our President, what do you think the reaction will be from Democrats? I won't be surprised if there is significant civil disturbance. Will you accept the results of the election?