No doubt there is a lot of rancor towards Urban Meyer from ND fans over some recruiting stuff. Here's how he felt about ND in 2004!
That's a good article, and Sid he is a class act. He is also changing the culture at Florida where more and more of our Gator players graduate. Thanks for posting Terry.
my irish brothers <t>are misdirected.<br/> <br/> its not Meyer (or FUCUM as he's known) that should draw their ire, its Mattison.<br/> <br/> He was an off the hook recruiter at Michigan when he had a boogey man.. Then he became and employee of the boogeyman and couldn't replicate his success. I thought he proved himself more worthy as a coach because I remember the M people weren't sad to see him go as a DC.. I thought he redeemed himself at ND as an actual coach..but as a recruiter.. He was just ok. Of course, being on a staff of terrible recruiters made him look a lot better than he was...he was the blind squirrel but he was beaten (badly) on many big-time targets.<br/> <br/> Now at Florida, he's the one mainly behind the strategy of waiting till a kid is committed and then swooping in to make it a 2 dog race.<br/> <br/> As a coach-recruiter, I respect his style as his own. Its not mine, but to each their own. I find that approach a bit beneath me but as long as he can sleep at night, more power to him.<br/> <br/> As an ND fan, I wouldn't p*ss on the guy if he was on fire.<br/> <br/> My only real beef with Meyer is that I keep seeing him quoted or read player reports in interviews in which Coach Meyer is just fabricating numbers on things like grad rates. You never know. Kids say a lot of things, but I'm starting to read it regularly.. Other than that, I really have no beef with him. He's UF's coach and I'm glad they are very happy with him.</t>
Yeah Mattison is definitely a persona nongratis for Irish fans. He reportedly has continued to recruit Braxton Cave and made disparaging comments about ND, South Bend, etc. Cave reported this in an article he was interviewed for in the Trib, but he did not name Mattison..but insiders say that is who it is. I am actually surprised that Mattison would take the low road, he coached at ND under both Davie and Willingham and his daughter is a ND graduate. Something has left him bitter. Anyway, it's not like he's the only guy doing it. Lloyd Carr supposedly used to tell Black Athletes that they wouldn't be welcomed by the ND students and they wouldn't be treated well. Of course he didn't mention that black athletes actually graduate from ND at one of the highest rates in the NCAA while his own are amongst the lowest. Of course all of the above is just hearsay, and internet rumours nothing can be proved. Heck I've seen fans of other programs call Mack Brown a snake oil salesman, which is not true.
Corey, yada, yada, yada! Terry, I am going to have to disagree strongly with you about Mattison. Like I have said before no kid is truly committed until signing day. Every school sticks with recruiting players they want even if they have committed elsewhere. If the NCAA wanted the verbal to be final then that's the way things would be sit up, but until then there is nothing wrong with pursuing players you want until they sign elsewhere. Just my humble opinion, but I am also pretty sure that after Weis went on his rant last year about players switching schools it was brought out that he was still recruiting a player at another school right up to signing day. I still say it's nonsense to complain about coaches doing what is clearly legal by the rules.
fine Bill <t>you can yada me all you want.<br/> <br/> like i said, professionally, more power to mattison... its just not my style.<br/> <br/> as for meyer, i took those reports in year 1 with a grain of salt. year 2, a larger grain. now we're in the 3rd year and i'm starting to wonder what the deal with the numbers he is throwing around is.<br/> <br/> i mean, hell, you can lie to this kids. that's ok according to the rules too. that doesn't make it right, but you can do it according to the rules.<br/> <br/> to each their own i suppose.<br/> <br/> btw, please note i wasn't trashing meyer. i was stating that ND fans have their panties in a twist over a guy that they would be glad to have as a coach. their stance isn't only hypocritical, its borderline petty jealousy.<br/> <br/> mattison on the other hand... he's a one-trick pony. he needs the boogey man to recruit and he's a bad mouther from hell. that reflects more on his limitations professionally than it does either of the schools involved. personally, for me, i think florida is 'better' than the mattison's of the world. <br/> <br/> now im sure you can say that Weis does the same thing. im sure it happens everywhere..but you could also pick up the phone and ask Peter Vaas how much he enjoyed Duke this year as opposed to ND.</t>
Sid, I am only going by memory, that last year when Weis complained about losing a couple of players there was a player that came out and said he was still getting text messages from Weis after he had committed elsewhere. I think I heard it here or another internet site. Don't get me wrong though, I think that is part of the game. I will say again that the NCAA sets the signing date, until then no one is truly committed. Just my opinion.
I agree with you Bill, you win some and you lose some. Some of them hurt a little more. Right now the Gators are probably going to take Omar Hunter from the Irish, and naturally that doesn't sit well with most Irish fans. You are right though, the Irish got Brian Smith from Iowa late in the recruiting game. Most Irish fans see that as being different from the Justin Trattou loss. But no matter what Irish fans think of UM's and/or Mattisons ethics in recruiting vs Weis, it doesn't matter because nothing illegal is being done and the kids aren't forced to do anything. Me I hate losing Hunter, but I'd rather lose him to Fla than Mich or USC. Just a FYI the rumor with regards to Trattou was that Meyer convinced him to not inform Irish coaches he was going to take a visit to Fla and that the new Irish DCoord would make him into a DT. Then he promised him he could be a 4-3 DE at Fla. Of course Trattou is a DT at Fla. Also the rumour is that Meyer has told Hunter that he will start at DT next year because 2 of your DT's aren't going to be back for academic reasons. Again these are just rumours, and 2nd hand stuff...and even if true aren't against the rules. Terry
I agree with Bill here. They all do it, including Weis. When Mattison/Meyer heisted Trattou last year Weis turned right around and purloined Brian Smith from under Iowa's nose.
interesting <t>I didn't realize that so many people would condone lying to kids.<br/> <br/> Mind you, its not the 'poaching' that I care about. I made it clear, to each their own.. There's a lot of grey area there anyway.<br/> <br/> What I am objecting to is the lying to a kid... That is my contention and that combined with bad mouthing other programs is where I think Mattison should be the real target of Irish ire...and ND surely isn't the only ones, they just seem to be the last to catch onto this.<br/> <br/> Some people considered me a negative recruiter because I would quote factual numbers reflecting our schools graduation rate. Some people don't like to hear the truth I guess. Some of my own friends lie to kids they are recruiting all the time. I think that's terrible. I don't think that should be part of the game..but it is. I think that position comes with a responsibility. Most of these families haven't been to college and rely heavily on the information given to them by these coaches..They shouldn't lie to kids. That's all I am saying.<br/> <br/> That's just me though..</t>
Corey, go to a Gator board, Notre Dame board, Cane board, FSU board or any other major college board on the net and you will find loads of allegations about how the other guys lie but our guys are straight arrow. It might also surprise you, though I doubt it, that lot of those fans just don't care for Notre Dame, or in fact for any team but their own. I don't buy your position one bit that the Gator coaches are unethical, intentionally lying or any other bit you want to put out there more so than Notre Dame or any other major program. If you believe that you are living in la la land. I'll put the ethics of Urban Meyer and staff up against any major program out there, I'm not saying they are perfect but he has a very high ethical base to his life. I don't want to get into a pi**ing match with you, in fact will not but you really have a tendency to get on your high horse and see the fault in other programs pretty quickly sometimes.
well <t>if you tell your kid that your graduation rate is one thing, when its entirely another, that's lying to a kid.<br/> <br/> if you tell a kid that he fits your scheme and will play at one position... then you move him immediately to another.. you lied to that kid.<br/> <br/> if you misrepresent yourself or the university in any way, you lied to the kid.<br/> <br/> As for your question Bill, you're right, I wouldn't be surprised. I do happen to know that Mattison was a negative recruiter..even when he was at ND. He just wasn't as good a recruiter at ND as he was when he was at UF or Michigan. Like I said, he needs a boogeyman. That's his crutch.<br/> <br/> true story from when I was at UMD.<br/> <br/> There was a HUGE scuttlebutt over me being a negative recruiter involving the recruitment of a kid in South Dakota. It basically came down to our school and another 'state' school located in the SW portion of Minnesota.<br/> <br/> When I spoke to the kid.. I heard all sorts of reports that the other coaching staff was calling our city a 'shanty town'.. and that the city was full of 'drunk indians and wh*res, with little family environment' and even several dozen nuggets of personal attacks about the character and previous marriage of our head coach..They even told the kid they'd never move him from catcher.. a promise I refused to make but I did tell him he would get at least 2 years to prove he could win a spot in that position..<br/> <br/> I countered that with a side-by-side comparison of the graduation rates of our school and the other for:<br/> <br/> -program vs program<br/> -school vs school<br/> -both of those within the kids prospective major<br/> <br/> Keep in mind, NEITHER SIDE denied saying what they did.<br/> <br/> The end result? I caught heat for using 'negative recruiting tactics' from their HC and BOTH Admins (ours and theirs)... Why? You may ask.. because I empirically established the supremacy of one state academic institution over the other... I never called the other coach a liar, which he was. I never once bad mouthed the town, school or even mascot of the other team...but trust me, I could have.. Yet I wound up at fault...<br/> <br/> My example is not a rare exception. Stuff like that happens all of the time. Its a seedy business on all levels. Guys who take the low road are often lauded as 'great recruiters' and there is most certainly a 'wink and a nod' approach to the acceptability of telling kids you have intentions for them in one spot, when the actions eventually betray your real intentions.<br/> <br/> In case you were wondering, I refused to apologize for my actions BTW and in fact assured them I would continue them.. I know they didn't like that, but I was right and they knew it.<br/> <br/> On a total thread hijack, what do you think of the NCAA's new efforts to credential sports blogs in an attempt to 'regulate' what is and is not approved material on the internet?</t>
At what point does the recruit and , more importantly, his parents take responsibility for their decision? Buyer beware!
Graduation rates? Just where is the authority on graduation rates that makes you say Meyer is lying? I've seen statistics several times from various sources and they differ, also they are for the last 6 years in some cases and 5 years in others. More current numbers are available at Meyer's fingertips for current information. Before you accuse someone else of lying you should at least know the source of their information. You might be careful of that or someone might be able to accuse you of lying. I don't know what the heck you are talking about with a kid being immediately moved to another position. If you are talking about Trattou he was not to the best of my knowledge immediately moved, in fact as I recall he spent time at both end and tackle. So if he's who you have in mind when you say our coaches lie then you probably should do a fact check. In this case it's not going to turn up much, which in itself makes the lying charge pretty flimsy. It would seem like with what you went though you should understand that. As to Peter Vaas, I have no earthly idea so enlighten me. The world is not black and white, but mostly grey and of course anyone selling a product, and that's what Weis and Meyer are doing, are going to paint the picture as rosy as they can. Accusing others of lying is hardly productive.