As you know I never thought Iraq was a threat to the U.S. I have often thought Iran was. From my understanding Iran has a fairly strong Navy? On another note, Being a Christian, I often wonder if The Battle of Armageddon is near? Seems like were well into the early stages of a World wide Holy War. http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1619936,00050001.htm
So, TB, are you going on record as saying that you would support a decision to go into Iran with the present information :?:
Gentleman..PLEASE!.. Israel will handle Iran...and it will be done RIGHT. No advance publicity. End of story! jif
JIF, If Israel does "handle it", I think that TB's fear of... ... may be close to the truth. As you know, the only country hated by middle eastern countries more than America is Israel. If Israel handles it, they will have to make a parking lot out of the whole middle east.
Tom..If you recall several years ago 3 or 4 countries pulled a "surprise attack" on Israel, and were defeated. This Iran thing will happen so fast and so efficiently, that it will be over almost before it starts....and yes..Israel has a STOCKPILE of nukes to properly defend herself and make a good size parking area over there! jif
Well since the Euro's and the Russians all have economic interests that they are trying to protect by stalling any getting tough with Iran. I hope that when they become nuke capable that they use Europe or Russia as their testing ground.
Jif, Think the situation you were referring to happend over 33 years ago. I was still wearing the "pickel suit" then and was on leave squiring my mom and grandmom around Europe. Didn't even know thatNixon had put us on a war footing till we reached London(pagers ,if invented then weren't standard issue for an E-4 :shock: ) Terry, The chi-coms just signed that big oil and gas deal with the Iranians, so I don't think they will be jumping for joy
Would love to see Israel dispatch Iran as you guys think they will. I for one think the U.S. is tapped out for the time being in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think we're played out too. I was all for the Iraq war for all the reasons put forth. Where we ran afoul is when we decided to get into the "nation building" business. The defeat of Iraq , the toppling of their government and the capture of Saddam took weeks. The occupation and re-building has taken years and most of the American lives taken have been at the hands of snipers and roadside booby traps. IMO, this war should have beenm about nothing more than kicking their ass. Let them dig out of their own rubble.
Yes George but most on this board will point out that the the Muslim extremists/Al Queda are salivating at the thought of taking over in Iraq if we leave too early. I myself believe the Sunni insurgents and the Shiite powerstructure may yet kill each other off but they both have no intentions of stepping aside and allowing the likes of 300-400 foreign Zarqawis steal their oil and their country. That just plain wouldn't happen in my opinion so George...you and I agree 110%....it's time to move on. If we made a mistake so be it...it will have to play out on it's own and the results will be what they will be. In the next 10 years there will be no peace in Iraq when we leave no matter when we leave because too many differences exist between those who seek power there. It is asinine and it is weak and it reeks of American politics to suggest that Al Queda and Zarquawi will stand a ghost of a chance of booting out the real powerstructure in Iraq as I outlined above.
I do find it interesting that 100% of the opposition to the war is to the war in Iraq. I haven't even heard Cindy Sheehan complain about the War in Afghanistan. We do have casualties in Afghanastan, but they don't get much publicity. I wonder if Sheehans son had been killed there would she have been able to garner the support of Moveon.org or any other liberal organization. In Iraq I think the problem is that the Sunni's have all the experience and the hidden money to reconstruct the Bathists party and their army rather quickly after we leave. I actually don't know why they don't partition the country into a Sunni State and a Shite State and a Kurdish State. I assume that it would some how end up with one of those having most of the Oil as the reason. I also find it discouraging that as the US has beefed up the Hummers the insurgents have beefed up their bombs and the beefed up Hummers are still no match. Terry
Isn't most of the oil in the Kurdish north? The Kurds are also the weakest by design as Hussein knew he had to keep the Kurds under his oppresive thumb in order to control their oil reserves. I too think the Sunnis/Bathists have hidden their power base well and only embrace the Al Qeda who are there now because they assist vs. the U.S. The Sunnis especially and the Shiites too will crush Al Queda in Iraq as soon as the U.S. leaves and yet we will still hear the Bush admin. defend our continued presence there as a "war on terror". Give me a break.
Let me clarify my feelings. I believe that fundamentalist Islam hates our guts. Even the one's who do business with us. I also have no interest in exporting democracy to a bunch a medieval, backassward camel jockeys. Where they have us by the balls is with oil. They have it, we don't. And we don't want to explore our domestic resources or develop alternative fuel sources. So we are forced into this charade of nation building. We have put ourselves in this position. Our greatest defense against terrorists will be the day we are no longer dependent on these bastards for oil. Until then we need to use our techological military might to our advantage. If terrorists strike, we pick out a sponsor country and blow the hell out of them. Make the terrorist sponsor countries pay; they are the one's who have something to lose.
Good points George. We did just that in Afghanistan and the agenda was clear and I supported that completely before going in as did almost all Americans and I see that country as more unstable presently than Iraq and unable to fend off terrorists who would gain control upon our exit. The agenda and motives for going into Iraq have always been less clear and in fact an out and out misrepresentation at times (WMDS) although some on this board insist Hussein was but a weak puppet under the control of terrorists who would do the U.S. harm., etc.
I don't know about you guys, but on a global basis I hate Muslims. Yet I find myself daily dealing with patients of that faith who are hard working seemingly nice people. One of my assistants is married to a muslim guy from Lebanon. It makes me somewhat uneasy to on one had hate those bastards and to in general consider Islam a fundamentally evil religion that the world would be better off if it were crushed. On the other hand my personal day to day interaction doesn't confirm that at all. As far as Afghanistan, there was probably 100% support for the war in Afghanistan. Get bin laden. But we haven't, they are probably better off in the sense that the Taliban are out of power. But they are hardly stable and the war there seems as endless as the one in Iraq. I think I would feel those who protest the war in Iraq so vehemently and demand immediate withdrawal, would also demand the same thing in Afghanistan and protest that war as well. When they seem ok with one and not the other it seems to me the issue is Bush then. Terry
Bush had a clear and easily identified enemy in Afghanistan and it was one that had just brazenly pulled off the most deadly attack on U.S. mainland soil in our history. The American public not only supported but demanded that the U.S. go after THE specific bastards that did it and these assholes have been rooted up from their life of comfort and control to one of living in daily fear in some cave somewhere in Pakistan. Their life is clearly not as it was before and their power has been severely compromised. Of course the war in Iraq never from the start had that same connotation although after no WMDs were found the "we're going after terrorists" objective has been offered up by most conservatives as Bush protectionism in my opinion.
As far as Iraq goes, I think that any day the US can bring some pain and destruction to a Muslim nation it's a good thing. :twisted:
Terry. I know there are a lot of law abiding Muslims out there to be sure. The only problem I have is how many either openly or secretly enjoy the trouble and pain that their more radical brothers have set out to cause the U.S.