So this happened right in my area...I'm curious as to the opinions here, esp Krebs since he has a State Trooper in the family. It seems incredible that it went from pulling over for a lane change violation to her killing herself in Jail. I'm ordinarily on the side of the Cops, and I think you need to just comply with what ever it is they ask you to do and complain about it later. Arguing with them on the spot or resisting just never works out in your favor. But that said, to me it's clear that the Trooper was way out of line and escalated it himself. If she didn't want to stop smoking in her car, then he should have just moved on and issued her the citation or warning and let it be, not sure why he felt the need to exert his power and why he lost it himself. Clearly she had had mental issues and even told them she'd attempted suicide once before, usually though I think they only put people on suicide watch when they have been caught in some horrendous situation, not for somebody who's in jail over a scuffle with an officer.
It was just a routine traffic stop. Just like this one http://www.ktvu.com/story/29604781/hayward-officer-hurt-in-reported-shooting
The point I'm trying to make is that when the cop gets out of his car, he never knows what's ahead. Some just aren't coping with the anxiety. This guy in Texas is a perfect example. This is what happens when 2 mentally unstable individuals conflict.
OK I agree that routine stops can go south, so your point is taken. But in this case while as always he should approach with caution, but once the interaction started she didn't come out blazing with a gun, she lit up a smoke, hardly an action that should trigger him pulling her out of the car for refusing to snuff it out.
:idea: :arrow: In San Francisco, a cop was murdered two days ago on a routine traffic stop by a 21-year-old gang banger who was arrested yesterday. Dead is dead. I have zero sympathy for people who don't cooperate with police.
This.....It is so easy just to cooperate with the police, only a fool instigates what could be routine. Always give respect to law enforcement and for that matter your fellow man. She would be breathing today if she would have done this. My son was/is very headstrong and independent and I witnessed him getting pulled over one night (he forgot to turn his lights on after leaving a parking garage). The officers thought he was drinking with his lights off and questioned him in depth, well he started getting an attitude and him and I had to have a "Come to Jesus Talk" about respect and stupidity. Shut your mouth nod your head and be honest and you will be on the road shortley. Run your mouth, talk your trash and you may find a taser in the crack of your ass....
I don't think anybody thinks it's a good thing to argue with an officer, even if you think he's being and asshole or something like that. But the police also have an obligation to be the peacemaker and not the instagators. This lady should have just put out her smoke, sure that was the smart thing to do. But that cop also had the obligation to not escalate the situation over something stupid like that, he should have backed off given her the ticket or warning and he'd not be in the center of this mess and she would still be alive.
8) re: Ralph's son I have a million...make that two million Corey stories, but he's getting too old for dad to use his youthful indiscretions as cyber fodder. He can write his own when he feels like it...
Let me tell you all a real story that happened yesterday in Atlantic City involving my son who is now a plain clothes nacotics and street gangs detective with the NJSP. Then you can think about what you would do. He was buying cocaine on the street as part of a sting operation. Right in the heart of ghetto. He returned to his unmarkd car just in time to hear a report of a black man on foot terrorizing people with what was reported as an assault rifle. My son looks up while listening and sees the man coming up the street on the sidewalk, waving and pointing what looks like an AK-47 with full clip. People are running everywhere. The guy detours into a liquor store. Scott radios in and pulls his car in front of the store and gets out, uses his car as a shield, draws his 9mm and calls for backup. Out comes the guy holding the rifle. Scott yells at him to stop and drop the weapon. He is 10-12' away and Scott has him dead to rights. The guy starts to swing the gun in the direction of my son. He screams at hm a second time and he drops the gun and raises one hand while reaching behind his back with the other. At this point my kid is squeezing the triggeras he screams a third time at the guy. He said he's not sure how he kept from putting a hald dozen hollow points in his chest at that point. The guy brings his hand out empty and lays down on the siidewalk. The backup arrives and they secure the guy. He had nothing in his waistband and his AK-47 turned out to be an authentic looking pellet gun. His sister witnessed the whole thing and ran out of her apartment crying and hugging my son and thanking him for not killing her brother. His Lieutenant told him he had steel balls for not dropping that guy under the circumstances. Scott was so shook up that he came over to our house and drank a third of a bottle of my Tito's. He said he could have killed this guy twice and been justified. The guy is in Atlantic County Jail right now. You won't read about this in the paper or hear about it on the news. But this is what normally happens. It is real stylish to blame cops now and everybody is a backseat driver. So what would you have done?
I don't know what I would have done, but I can say with certainty that your son is an outstanding and brave man. He should be commended for his restraint. I consider him a hero for literally saving a life that justifiably could have ended. He represents the ideal police officer. That's not to say every officer should do what he did, because to shoot in self defense clearly would have been justifiable. If the world was full of men like your son, there would be no Ferguson or Baltimore or Cleveland or Houston. I sure hope you gave him a huge hug. I'm guessing his mother did.
Great story George and I am pretty sure I would have peed my pants in that situation! Your kid is clearly one of the good guys.
I will leave it to others to determine if he is a good cop at the end of his tenure but this event just happened and I re-told it to illustrate the many dynamics that are at work in a situation like that and it happens in a matter of seconds. It is easy for the rest of us to second guess but unless you have been in that exact position it is all just chatter. I know one thing.... it is not a job that I could do. I cannot imagine too many things more unnerving that walking up to a car... especially at night.
Just an FYI, inside her own car, she is not legally required to put out the smoke. When she asked why she was being asked to exit the vehicle, the officer must tell her. We can keep using anecdotal stories to justify these types of things. Social media is absolutely going nuts over this because they pointed out that her mug shot doesn't have the right background, and in fact is the same color as the floor...indicating that she may already be dead in that picture. If being a combative asshole is a legal reason to murder people, then you can go ahead and murder at least half the police force. None of this **** addresses some core issues in so much that too many members of the black community went from being led by Martin Luther King, to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They act the fool. That being said, it's not just black kids. There's white kids getting shot that just aren't news worthy it would seem. The bottom line is, this isn't the wild west and if the police don't follow the rules, than why should anyone else? Mind you, I am not one who always takes the side of the victim. I have quite openly challenged anyone who starts that 'hands up' **** because that kid legitimately deserved to get shot for his actions. But we've got deputized dudes who aren't even real policemen shooting people in the back. It's just gotta stop.
I support the law. I have made it 61 years without getting shot or assaulted by a law enforcement officer. Of course, I am not an idiot. That may have something to do with it.
Corey, I have to side with George and the law. His last point is the KEY point here. What is the ratio of people that have been shot by police and those that have not? I bet it coincides with the ratio of law abiding citizens to law breaking, police hating fools! I don't have 61 years on this earth but I do have 57. I have had police draw down on me mistaking a cell phone for a gun but even then, they told me to drop it and I did... no shots fired. I had accidently found myself driving behind the county jail late at night in a new city. I got out to ask a police officer a question and immediately there were a team of officers that spewed forth out of the jail like a army of fire ants. It was not a fun situation but I acted appropriately and did not get shot. Thin the herd!