OK.... I am not dodging this question any longer. I know it's out there.... has been discussed in numerous sports media circles but not here.... lest we "offend" someone. But I think it's a legitimate question to ask if Peyton Manning did in fact miss an opportunity last Sunday to put all of those legacy type questions to rest. Here is what one poster over on a Gator message board had to say and I would dismiss it as Gator hate except for the glaring stats listed: "I think his legacy is that he's the guy who's thrown 3 TD's and 4 INT's in his 3 Super Bowl appearances. For that matter, he's only thrown 1 more TD to his own team(3) than than he has to the opponents(2) in those games. Add that to the playoff meltdowns, throw in his college days, and you have a pretty good sample size. He's a very good QB when things are perfect, and completely implodes when the stakes go up and adversity is faced " I never really took a look at those stats before but they are obviously not impressive Super Bowl stats for a QB who has been in three Super Bowls and especially for a QB as great as Peyton has been otherwise. Thoughts?
Peyton is one of the greatest QB's in the NFL History, he just hasn't had the success in the playoffs that you would expect. I think I read that he's lost more NFL playoff games than any QB, but of course you have to be in the playoffs inorder to lose them. I look at a guy like Jim Kelly, lost all of his Super Bowls, Dan Marino made 1 Super Bowl, lost it...still those guys are Hall of Famers. Another interesting stats...NFL QB's who have thrown for more than 40 TD's in a season only 1 resulted in a Super Bowl win, Brady threw for 50, lost the Super Bowl. Russel Wilson stats this year were very average, except for his QB Rating which was top 5, significantly higher than either Brady or Manning.
Likewise Peyton is a first vote HOF guy I'm sure. He also has the most one-and-done playoff appearances than any other NFL Qb.... but you have to make the playoffs to own that record. Still....his playoff stats won't be a part of the greatness of his legacy it would seem.
Motorman..are you trying to ruffle my feathers again :?: 160 days to Summer Camp! The Pats will get 2 proven, hi quality pass catchers. Brady will play 3 more years, and get 2 more rings...Lets all meet back here ( I hope) in 4 years and lets see/talk about legacies at that time. AMEN :!: :!:
That's what made Joe Montana one of the greatest, he won a lot of playoff games and 4 Super Bowls and never lost. I remember his last season when San Francisco essentially dumped him because they didn't think he had anything left and they wanted to go with Steve Young...he went to Kansas City and took them all the way to the AFC Championship game. If it was a playoff you wanted Joe as your QB.
So my thought is that Peyton has lost an opportunity to rise above Marino and Kelly and join Montana at his level.... or maybe Peyton is somewhere in between.
I skew toward MCG's point of view on this. Pro football is all about winning. I don't think Montana is necessarily a better QB than Manning or Marino or Kelly but all he did was win. As did Aikman, Bradshaw, Eli Manning, Griese, Starr and Elway at the end. you put those guys on the biggest stage and they won virtually all the time. Nobody remembers who finished second in pro football.
In his era, 1999- He and Brady are the top QB's, just great every year. There are guys like his brother Eli with 2 wins and Roethlesberger who also has 2 wins but those guys haven't been the year in and year out top QB's that Brady and Manning have been in the regular season.
What I don't understand is how does Jim Plunkett not have a spot in the HOF, he's 2-0 in Super Bowls. Bart Starr..if you considered the NFL Championship games before the advent of the Super Bowl, he won 5 "World" Championships in a row. Pretty damn impressive.
I wonder what kind of QB rating Plunkett had and how many years of success did he enjoy? Manning does have a long time history of being successful and at least making the playoffs.... and that one Super bowl ring so that's why I say he's somewhere in between Kelly and Montana but it's a shame that Seattle's dominance of Manning's offense will hold his legacy in check combined with many other playoff failures. Last year's first game loss to Baltimore doesn't help either. You have to wonder what the cold and calculated Elway is pondering now.
If Manning plays 2 more seasons, he will have thrown for more yds. than any QB in history. He trails only Favre at this point. By next October he probably will have thrown for more TDs than any QB in history. He has already been a pro-bowler 13 times and has led his team to 3 Super Bowls. In the end football is a team sport and a QB is on the bench more than 1/2 of the game. Comparing Manning with other QBs shows his standing in history while comparing his teams accomplishments with other teams is not as accurate a barometer of his play. Using success in the Super Bowl as a benchmark, one would have to say that Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien and Trent Dilfer were all better QBs than Dan Marino. I think that's absurd.
Hard to compare QB stats across era's....clearly the game has changed and what constitutes a prolific passing game in Bart Starr's era is pedistrian in todays pass happy NFL. Also almost 2x the number of regular season games for Manning/Brady/etc than for Bart Starr.
OK so Starr played in a much smaller league and only had the upstart AFL champion to beat. Let's diminish his Super Bowl wins. :roll:
Not at all, you misread my comment. Can't compare Barts stats to Peytons stats, but a NFL Championship of which Bart has 5 including 2 Super Bowls are the most of any QB.
Starr had to win one playoff game to win an NFL Championship (and get to the Super Bowl.) You can't compare eras.
Found some interesting NFL Qb stats: QB playoff record / comebacks / game winning drives Peyton 10-12 / 1 / 1 Starr 9-1 / 1 / 1 Montana 16-7 / 5 / 5 Eli 8-3 / 2 / 3 Brady 18-8 / 3 / 6 Favre 13-11 / 2 / 2 Aikman 11-4 / 1 / 1
I wouldn't disagree with that, same for any sport. But still in his era, he was the king...I guess the fair question would be all those Championships...would that team have won them without Vince? Or all those HOF players around him. Was he the A.J. McCarron of his day? Game Manager!
Terry.... from my last post with his overall record, comeback playoff wins and game winning drives it looks to me like Tom Brady belongs at least on par with Montana. Who knows.... Starr could have been that guy too but I suspect his team was vastly superior to many others of his day. When you consider all of the moving/revolving parts that have been the Patriots during Brady's time that guy is pretty damned amazing to me.... and in my opinion head and shoulders above Peyton Manning.