Man, have I lost any respect for this school . The NCAA folds up and returns the wins to them and Paterno. Will they also return the lost innocence of all the victims of sexual assault and rape that occurred under JoePa's tenure? If this university, and I use that term in the loosest way possible , had any sense of responsibility they would immediately vacate those wins once and for all. Don't hold your breath.
Yeah it's sad that slowly the NCAA is rolling back all the sanctions that they imposed on Penn State and Paterno. Soon it'll be like it never happened.
I didn't start this subject here because unlike most things we debate, this one actually pisses me off. I've been so angry about it, that I've tried to just avoid the subject here out of respect for the women, the religious and people who appreciate proper social decorum and etiquette. If you are one of those 3, I would invite you to stop reading this post right now because it's going downhill fast from here. Seriously.. just skip to the next post These motherf(ckers need to be booed at every turn. This is the worst of the worst. Nothing any program on probation before compares to this, not one. This is the single worst scandal in the history of college sports. I don't want to hear about pay for play. I don't even wanna hear about the random rapist, thug gangsta or hoodlum on the roster. That's not to diminish the horrors of those those others are capable of, but this is worst. This is institutional, university wide, coaching staff wide, fan base wide protection, rationalization and endorsement of a monstrous pedophile the likes of which would register for a history channel special even if he was not a famous football coach. I don't want to hear one god damned excuse for Joe Pa and Penn State, not one. There's only 2 possible realities here. 1. Joe Pa knowingly harbored a pedophile to protect the image of the football program (and his legacy). OR 2. If you believe the Pro-Paterno crowd... Joe was such a pant shitting, senile figurehead that he wasn't capable of properly policing the program. (a noble attempt to fall on their sword) However, this is actually THE WORST possible scenario. While you are protecting Joe Pa image of the affable grandpa, you are admitting (because remember, Joe Pa did pass along all this info as did the other coaches/witnesses) that the institution itself covered up, harbored and knowingly handled a monstrous pedophile with special treatment to protect the image of the football program, thus maintaining their competitive advantage. That is the meaning and the essence (both by letter and implied meaning of the term) of "lack of institutional control." That is a university knowingly putting the well being of the football program ahead of the children of the community. If that's allowed, if that's legal, you have to look yourself in the mirror and ask 'what the f(ck are we doing here? I called for at the time, and I believe it still to be true, that Penn State deserved the Death Penalty for this. People thought I, and others, were overreacting. How was the news met? Penn State students rioted and held a stream of rallies to support Joe Pa. They effing rioted!! They absolutely refused to show any remorse whatsoever and steadfastly refused to admit any possible competitive advantage that could be gained from this 'alleged coverup' even though Ray f*(king Charles could see it and that guy had been dead 8 years at the time this story broke. They bitched and bitched about being punished. They complained. They got the Disney media machine of ESPN/ABC on board constantly portraying O'Brien and the players at Penn State as heroes for continuing on in the face of adversity, like any god damned one of those guys faced adversity in comparison to the victims of that monster Penn State protected and facilitated. USC just served a full sentence probation, that was about as bad as anyone aside from Alabama, can remember for a kid who was getting cash from an agent. Where was their reduction? What message are you sending?! What message is the game sending? This is about educating children. What the **** are we doing here!? Nope, I don't want to hear about Miami's swagger. I don't wanna hear about Barry Switzer. I don't want to hear about U$C. I don't wanna hear about Calipari. To an extent, I don't even want to hear about Florida State although they are coming perilously close to the Penn State situation. This is a school, an administration, a fan base and a program that needs to go away and be put in time out for several years. This is the true face of evil in college athletics and they should be treated as such.
By the way, their current head coach is a piece of **** too http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/04/james_franklin_vanderbilt_rape.html
Greg Doyel is far from my favorite sports writer. However in this case I think he is right and wrote a great article. Nothing is going to restore Paterno's reputation.
I could not agree more with Corey. I worked for 30 years with a fellow who was a PSU booster and who's brother in law was probably one of the top five PSU boosters. Both had access to inner workings. Both knew Sandusky and neither were surprised by the allegations, only the scope of them. The two coaches were close personal friends and worked together for a long time. My friend said there was no possibility that Paterno did not know that Sandusky was a child predator and rapist. Whatever happened to that young QB coach who actually witnessed Sandusky raping a small boy in the shower? I hope that cowardly SOB is nowhere near sports any longer. Penn State could go a long way toward cleansing itself by permanently vacating the wins in question as acknowledgement of the horrendous crimes that took place under Paterno's tenure. By lobbying the NCAA to have these wins reinstated, this institution is showing complete disregard to the victims and their families. This school deserves all the scorn and derision that people can hurl against it. Forever.
By the way, agreeing with the article Doyel wrote does not mean that I do not agree with Corey and George. Penn State will be a very long time getting out from under this and deservingly so.
I believe agreeing with Doyel is agreeing with Corey, George, Sid and everyone other than rabid twisted Penn State loyalists. Such a strong article by Doyel..... and so right. When that news was announced about giving those wins back I am sure everyone of us felt a sick feeling in the pit of our stomach.
Apparently my understanding of the role of the NCAA is much different from many others. It is a voluntary association of the participating members with its primary purpose being the overseeing of the athletic activities of those schools. Its primary concern is the safety of the participants and the integrity of the competitions. With the consent of its members it institutes and policies rules of conduct covering the recruiting, practice, and athletic contests. In so doing it aims to prevent participating schools from having an unfair advantage over other schools by operating outside the rules. When USC has an athlete who is receiving benefits considered not permissible under NCAA rules AND the school refused to acknowledge or properly investigate that breach, it deserves to be sanctioned. Somebody please explain to me how the events involved in the Sandusky matter in any way fell within the realm of activities encompassed by the NCAA rules? Was there any relationship between what happened and the outcome of recruiting or the games played by Penn. St.? Don't get me wrong, I abhor what happened and the proper legal authorities punished Sandusky. The civil courts have addressed the damages done to the kids as best as they can. The administration have lost their jobs (and probably should have been held criminally liable.) Paterno died in disgrace. His precious statue was removed. That being said, just how does taking victories away from the players who won them on the field have any relationship to NCAA rules and regulations? It doesn't. I find it a pathetic gesture. I think that the reason that the NCAA is backtracking is because they know they greatly overstepped their authority. I think ultimately they were going to lose in litigation brought by the school against them. They don't and shouldn't get involved in every aspect of university life, only that portion that they've been created to oversee. This was way outside that area.
If integrity of the competitors is one of the NCAA's two biggest concerns, then they did not intervene enough in my opinion. We question the integrity of FSU every day on here. Yet PSU has shown that there is no question of their integrity. Indisputably, they have none. Can we at least agree that full grown men in positions of authority and trust at a state university who sodomize and assault young boys over a two decade period of time might just possibly be a larger issue than a QB stealing crab legs from Publix or someone selling their own jerseys? The serial natures of the crimes is horrendous. The cover up is unforgivable.
I agree with Gipper. The NCAA has f'd up enforcement of athletics enough, let's keep them out of criminal enforcement. The legal system has/is running its course.
Can we agree that locking up the monster for the rest of his life is suitable punishment and that taking away football wins is not?
At what point in time does turning a blind eye become collaboration? I understand what you're saying Gipper, but there is also a Code of Ethics for NCAA membership and Penn State wiped their ass with it. From the NCAA's own Governance page http://www.ncaa.org/about/what-we-do/governance The NCAA has in the past used as broad, or narrow of a brush as it needed to attempt to maintain a moral dignity to its membership. Notice you don't see any mention of maintaining 'amateur' standing? However, the NCAA punishes violations for that as ferociously as they do selectively. There's no one who could make the case that the entire modern Penn State University owes its existence to Penn State football. Without Joe Pa, they are what they are, which is not the Penn State we see today. Everyone knew this. Everyone knows this. The ugliest truth to all of this is someone took a look at the anal rape of children, and said 'yeah, that's a fair price for who we are today.' That can't be avoided. For once, the NCAA did the right thing. When you have a university clearly going out of their way to do what Penn State quite clearly did, they have to go. This program needs to be burned right the **** to the ground. They do not need to be playing college football, not as an NCAA member institution.
I'm sorry but expecting the NCAA to be punishing Penn. St. for the Sandusky matter is the same as the CYO closing churches because of pedifile priests.
Again, I agree with Gipper. Sandusky broke the law to say the least and the legal system should take care of that. The individuals that looked the other way or actively covered up those illegal acts should also be subject to the legal system. The NCAA sanctions are/were a PR stunt. I've always thought taking away wins was a stupid sanction anyway. Do the losers of those games now go out and celebrate because they now have a win? :?
We tend to look at college sports through a kaleidoscope at times. Are they amateur athletes, academic athletes, 18 - 20 year old kids who in reality are still growing up and at the mercy of the governing board or semi pro athletes making millions with the school they are affiliated with. The answer is a little bit of each at the end of the day. The ruling against Penn St. has always been whatever it takes to cause damage to the abomination Sandusky caused (and it's an abomination) against innocents. Where does this leave the older innocents playing for Penn St. .??? Throw the book against whoever facilitated and covered up the atrocities but remember this is and always will be a team sport. Last time I looked at the historic records Joe Pa, Sandusky and others were not taking snaps in the 112 games stricken from the record books. Yes this is wrong in areas of common decency but also correct in who is assigned the punishment.
They were in charge of the football program while boys were being raped for 20 years in camp programs related to the PSU football program. Fair has nothing to do with this.