You guys have been conspicuously quiet on this issue. I'm interested in your thoughts..... http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-04-27-obama-notre-dame_N.htm
This is quite the issue with alums. Sure it's an honor to have the President of the US at your graduation. And you should accord him all of the respect that the office deserves. That being said: if you are a Catholic University, you cannot "honor" someone who advocates and supports the abortion of the unborn. They can't dismiss football players who had sexual relations with a consenting female because it is contrary to Catholic teachings and then bestow an honorary degree on someone who supports and enables abortion. They sold out their Catholic identity for prestige. They deserve all the flack that they are getting.
I agree with Gip. The Bishop of South Bend is also the Bishop of my city, Fort Wayne. He touched off the controversy by saying that he would not attend the graduation, which he normally does. Our family knows him personally. He's a good man and a good shepherd of his flock. He did the right thing. There is a document authored in 2004 by the U.S. bishops which strictly prohibits what the university is doing.....honoring someone whose beliefs are in contradiction to Church teachings. Unfortunately, radical elements have entered the fray and are dominating the local scene with airplane banners and truck panels depicting ugly pictures of aborted fetuses. I was on the Indiana Toll Road yesterday driving past South Bend and I saw the plane carrying the banner. It was too far away for me to be able to see the photo. This is regrettable. The entire situation has turned into a circus, and Fr. Jenkins, the university president, has only himself to blame. Yes, the university has a long tradition of inviting sitting presidents to speak at graduation, but as Gip said, in this case the university has sold its Catholic identity for prestige. It's a shame. Rick, I caught your "JC" reference. Funny.
Likewise BDR, good stuff..... Sid, Gip and all, It is a difficult and unfortunate situation. I was just curious as to what you guys were thinking.....
My thoughts are right along the lines of Gips and Sids but since they are alumni of the school I felt it more appropriate that they comment on the matter at hand. I want someone to explain to me, and as Gip mentioned the kids disciplined harshly for violating parietals, when the school itself finds a way to 'make an exception now and again.'
Say what? ND players have been dismissed for boinking their girlfriends? Must a missed that one..... :shock:
there are a series of rules that you will often hear some of us gripe about that we feel place ND at a bit of an unfair advantage. almost as quickly as we fuss about it, others will (correctly) point out that it is the mission of the school as a Catholic university to have these guidelines. If you remember the ND rape trial a few years back.. The players were all dismissed. The only one convicted of a crime was the one who admitted that he 'grabbed a boob', but even he contended that the sex was consentual. The rest of the kids had the charges dropped against them for lack of evidence... but the fact that they had admitted the act already doomed them at ND even though it saved them in court. We aren't just whining for our health
Yup, bring him in fine...but don't give him the degree. Fr. Jenkins IMHO is not proving to be one of the great ND presidents. I don't know when his term is up for renewal, but they should find another priest to lead the University.
So Corey you are telling me that the admin. at ND seem to think they have the problem of consensual sex under control and that no one on the football team is having it for fear of being booted out of school? If that were truly the case then ND will never return to any significance on the football field because what kid would go there? Tebow?
Palin for Notre Dame: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/05/09/whitfield.rhodes.miller.intv.cnn Now that's one way the Fathers at ND can combat the unwed sex problem with the football team.... :wink:
I don't think ND's more strict rules have much of an effect on recruiting. I'm sure there is an occassional kid who doesn't want to go to ND because of the rules, but to tell you the truth I doubt they even know much about the rules during their recruiting. I'm sure there are kids who don't pick ND because they actually have to go to class and there aren't any basketweaving courses. But overall we probably do well with kids who are academically oreiented and whose parents prize academics. If you are a parent and you do your homework, esp if you are black, and graduation and academics are important to you then there is no place better for your son than ND. If you are a kid who wants to party, have an apartment and live off campus, take some easy major, have a situation where the coach is in charge of discipline and will give you 2nd and 3rd chances or even ignore violations if he can get away with it. Then ND isn't the place for you.
Terry....I am the first one to step up and get irritated when top players with some perceived or real academic flaw want to be Gators but then UF has some tougher academic requirements that in some cases causes these players to have to go elsewhere. I understand the feeling you get being an ND fan seeing examples of this kind of recruiting loss but I really do think that if the rule of no consensual sex was truly enforced and could keep rival coaches in the driver's seat on a quality recruit that they just may point this out to that recruit. However......academically I can agree ND most likely does have prohibitive stringent academic requirements....Tony Rice notwithstanding....but I can't see the sex rule as having any teeth because you wouldn't get any talent in South Bend if this were truly the case. Hey...can guys like Rice still get in to ND? He was prop 48 and it sounds like it worked out pretty well for him academically: http://www.blueandgold.com/content/?aid=1321
It comes down to one question. What is more important, the stature of having the president speak at your commencement or the preservation of one of the cornerstone beliefs of your faith?
Dave none of these "rules" are new and the fact that ND takes a more serious approach to player discipline than most other schools is not new either. The rules even predate the arrival of Sid and Gipper on campus. Just as I'm sure that those have been used against us in recruiting for as long as there has been recruiting. Heck in Sids day the kids had to accept going to a school with no girls on campus. But I'm just as sure that Irish coaches work very hard in explaining the value of going to ND. No doubt that's easier when the team is winning.
Dave, I don't believe ND has taken a Prop48 in a very long time. Of course, the Pro48s that ND did take turned out to be pretty great (in the classroom and on the field)...
Young men are attracted to ND for a myriad of reasons, none of which have to do with the social life or the weather, which are two aspects that set us apart from southern or western programs. It usually involves some combination of the value of a ND degree, the tradition, the attractivess of the campus, the friendliness of the students, etc.
So....I am to buy the line that these young healthy males who are BMOCs no matter where they go are fully told and they accept the fact that they are beholden to absolute abstinence or face harsh penalties before they sign up to play for the Irish when they also have the choice in a lot of cases of playing out in LaLa land for SouCal or down in the sunshine state for UF or Miami? Are these guys signing up for the priesthood? .......uh.....Ok....... :roll:
I doubt if anybody sits them down and puts it in those terms. And even if opposing coaches, like Urban Meyer, puts it in the most unfavorable light, somehow we still get a lot of pretty good players. You see the results in the recruiting rankings. Last year inspite of the poor season they signed the #1 over all defensive recruit and he was from Hawaii. They also signed Zeke Motta an excellent LB/S from down in Fla. They don't run a prison there with bed checks and cameras.