From Warchant ( FSU message board): http://floridastate.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1079&tid=99898893&mid=99898893&sid=1061&style=2 ND fans here have WAY more to be negative about after I watched both ND and FSU in their openers. FSU played a similar first half as did ND but those highly paid new coaches on the FSU sideline obviously made some adjustments at the half that were effective in a 24-18 closer than Clemson wanted it loss. If I were an ND fan I would question the halftime adjustments that were not made or were not effective vs. Ga Tech. Maybe they were made and were the wrong ones or maybe GaTech on the road is that much better than Clemson at Death Valley. In any event I see FSU and ND on a similar plane as of now with similarly tough schedules. We'll see which one elevates to a higher plane faster.
TY or Chuckles? From CFN: It’s not like ol’ Jim Clausen can play defensive tackle … Fine, I’ll be the one to say it. If they're going to be fair and consistent, all those Notre Dame alumni who were in on the infamous letter that voiced their displeasure of the direction of the program under Ty Willingham have to be heard from again if this year's team is as bad as it looked this week. We’ve all given nothing but love to Charlie Weis for taking Willingham’s players to the BCS in each of the last two years, but now this is Chuck’s program. These are his guys. This is his team, and if it starts to suck, it’s his fault. If Weis rights the ship and Notre Dame beats the good teams ahead on the schedule, then all is fine. Of course, it's not time to fold up shop based on one awful performance, but if the team keeps playing as poorly as it did against Georgia Tech, and if there isn’t at least a little bit of alumni rumbling, considering Willingham only got three years to operate, then the same types who went ballistic about the Don Imus situation are going to smell blood in the water. I'm not saying it's necessarily right or wrong; I'm saying it's going to start up. The Yellow Jackets are really, really, really good, and they exposed all the Irish flaws. The lines are awful, the receiving corps doesn’t have immediate replacements for the lost stars, the secondary isn’t any better, and there’s a shocking dearth of running back talent. Don’t blame Demetrius Jones, Evan Sharpley and Jimmy Clausen; they didn’t get any time to throw. If you remember, neither did Brady Quinn. Notre Dame isn’t going to beat Penn State this week. It’s not going to beat Michigan. It’s going to struggle against Michigan State if the Spartan running game is working. It’s going to have a nightmare of a time with the Purdue offense, and will likely be underdogs against UCLA and Boston College before facing USC. Last Saturday could be just the beginning. From MCG.....hey...It's fun talking about other teams....thanks for the idea George! :wink:
If you're going to talk at least get it straight. ND has more running back talent than any Irish team in recent memory. And the D-Line played OK. The major problem is the O-Line followed by QB and the outside LBs. The D-Backs played very well. I could not agree more about Weis. Whoever wrote that article was not paying close attention.
Well for starters all of the 7 players in the senior class are not Charlies, they're Tys. The junior class is also small and lacking in talent. Charlie was hired very late in the recruiting season and had no chance to repair this second poor excuse for a major college recruiting class. So this writer is still bringing up the Ty situation. Let's review shall we Ty's last two years with "his players" 5-7, 6-5 (Ty's best year was with Davie's players) Weis' first two years BCS Bowls Looks like you've given ole Charile 1 game with "his players." Traditionally your better lines come from juniors and seniors. Thanks to Ty we don't have any. And as to the "lost stars" he must be referring to players like jeff samardzija who sat rotting on the bench when Ty was coaching and was an All-American once Charlie got there. How does this guy know? If the O line sucks, just how does he evaluate the running back talent? I've seen only one RB who could run behind pylons and still gain yards and Barry Sanders is in the NFL HOF. The fact is ND has 2 great young prospects in James Aldrich and Armando Allen. So let's recap, this is now "Charlie's team" with almost no juniors and seniors being his fault. Ty was only given 3 years and Charlie is not under fire after the first game with "his team." If I as an alum am going to be "fair and consistant" I'm supposed to call for the head of this coach after back to back BCS seasons just like I did for a coach who went 11-12 his last two season.
To be fair....wouldn't Chollie's 3rd year player comparison ( this season ) compare identically to Ty's 3rd year player situation ( his last season) as far as having "his own recruits"?
Davie was a better coach it turns out than Ty. Davie also worked harder than Ty at recruiting. 2002 recruiting class was a Davie/Ty class and Davie left Ty with 12 commits that were pretty good, Ty didn't add much but did add McKnight and Stovall. 2003 recruiting class was Ty's best and it included Quinn, JeffS, etc 2004 slippage started, Ty refused to go to kids homes, they had to come to him. Brian Brohm was interested in ND as was Anthony Morrelli. In both cases Ty refused to offer scholarships unless they came to South Bend to work out for him. The QB recruit was Wolke who is at WKU now and another kid you never heard. It was a terrible class ranked outside the top 25, first ND class ever to be ranked that low. Season finished with probably the most heartless, gutless, effort I have ever seen by a ND team in losing to Syracuse. This years Sr's. 2005 recruiting class was a Ty/Weis effort. When he was fired his class was ranked down around 40 and he was still posturing and hardly working on recruiting. Weis stayed with the Patriots till the Super Bowl which made recruiting difficult and he also didn't get a staff together as quickly nor did he have much of a chance to interview the staff. So he was left nothing by Ty and wasn't really able to add much. This years Jr's. 2006 Top 10 2007 Top 10 ( with key defections after the LSU game) 2008 Top 10 for sure, likely top 5 and outside shot at #1. Sense anything different? Just about all coaches have skinny 1st year classes just because they don't get to work on them till late Dec when they get the job. Then the 2nd class is usually one of their best because they are energized and selling playing time, new system,etc...even if their first year is only so-so. Davie had a top 5 class his 2nd year. Weis inherited a team with 1 good class, and was down in numbers and in quality and also very unbalenced esp on the lines. He's building them back up and everybody knew this years squad would be very young and inexperienced. But unlike Ty he's continuing to add to the talent base of the team and is rebuilding depth across the board. I expect the media to revisit the why was Ty fired and Charlie given a pass if ND finishes 6-6. Not becuase there is any logic or comparisson to the job that Weis has done to Ty, but because Ty was black.
Sounds logical to me Terry but I would not expect the national media to explain it in the same way in the coming months when as an alternative they can dredge up a sensational storyline as they so often do. If Weis struggles this season as it appears he will then look out for this budding controversy to get even louder.
To follow up on what Terry posted, from the 2004 Ty recruiting class there are ZERO O lineman on the roster in fact there are ZERO offensive starters from the entire class of true seniors. And according to the media, this is "Charlie's team." It seems to me more than any other, this is Ty's crowning achievement.
Interesting point about the 2004 class. I looked back at UF's and there were 24 signed incl 2 Juco. So, there should be 22 left as possible true SRs or RJrs. There are only 12 left after transfers and early departures to NFL. Of those 12, four are starters on the o-line. Where UF's been hurt most by this class is at D-line and LBer and that will cost the Gators a game or two in 2007.
that's why they never played the game <t>those in the media watched from the sidelines with their underwear pulled up their ass...<br/> <br/> <br/> its as if context is totally lost upon them, which is surprising to me given that the written word is suppose to be their specialty, not the sport itself. sportswriters are story tellers.. most, if not all, couldn't qualify to be the towel boy for any of these major DI programs.<br/> <br/> yet they can speculate...and that's all it is, speculation.<br/> <br/> Ty's recruiting was a NIGHTMARE. he gave it one decent effort during his 3 years there, and even then....he was beaten out for the one true 'golden goose' that was out there.... Reggie Bush. (lest we not forget that came down to ND and USC)<br/> <br/> Davie had weird recruiting habits, but I honestly think that is because he was incapable of seeing the bigger picture... We needed OL and Davie wasn't always big on signing big uglies in every class, or making them a priority...<br/> <br/> But then when you bring in Ty on top of that... this guy had SH*TTY classes of no linemen...<br/> <br/> So when you actually get some big uglies on campus, how well can they be groomed? where is the training? where is the maturity? we've been throwing every jackass who can chop block and hold a 3drop count to the wolves for well over 9 years now... I firmly believe that Chuckles will get this rectified, but it takes time...<br/> <br/> You can't undo nearly a decade of gross incompetence in 2 years. You guys can't have it both ways. You can't laugh and say you were right all along about how bad things at ND were, then turn around and expect to have all the problems solved in 2 years time...and Lets not overlook, we're only talking about 2 recruiting classes that are freshman and sophs now.<br/> <br/> What other college program is held to that standard?</t>
No other college program is ahead of ND in that BCS Bowl line Corey and most of the time if not all of the time in the last several years ND should have stepped aside and let another more qualified team take those spots given the results. People tend to be more resentful and less forgiving when that kind of thing is going on. I know it sounds harsh but how else to present it?
well <t>your view is as skewed and uninformed as theirs. its about perspective.<br/> <br/> ND actually has requirements and ranking minimums to achieve. all that conference teams have to achieve is winning their conference.<br/> <br/> An ND team can have a 9 win year and not go to a BCS game. A BCS conference team can win their conference with 6, 7 or 8 wins and get the BCS nod just the same.<br/> <br/> Let's not forget that ND now gets less money for going to a BCS game. All facts carefully omitted from these 'objective' reports.<br/> <br/> So what you are telling me is that if someone perceives themself as being on the short end of stick in life....and wants to blame someone else, that makes them right?<br/> <br/> No...it makes them a perpetual victim who can't see what they need to accomplish to obtain what they want because they are too busy blaming someone else....welcome to the back of the line</t>
ps <t>your notion that ND should 'step aside to let more qualified teams' take their place is a joke.<br/> <br/> It implies that the BCS games are somehow part of a national title playoff, or some systematic process.. They aren't. We have a NC game, the others are just bowl games with bigger payouts.</t>
That is just pure BS. Everybody expects ND to step aside...when conferences agree to give up there absolute guarantee to a BCS bowl bid no matter how crappy their champion is then you can ask ND to do the same.
How in the world can you expect any team that qualifies for a BCS Bowl to step aside? That makes no sense what so ever.
The "step aside" comment I meant in theory or just for the purpose of making a point. That point is inescapable...that ND enjoys privileges that other schools do not and is the "chosen one" more often than not in the neutral fan's point of view. It's all about marketing and TV ratings and everyone understands that. When the Irish fail to live up to that lofty perch that they are always on then the sharks are eager to circle. That's what might happen with the TY vs. Chollie deal if ND really flounders. Of course Ga Tech's crushing win and the daunting schedule to follow is one huge thing fueling this speculation. If the Irish are much more competitive than they showed on Sat. the controversy may never happen.
I was just reading Pat Forde on ESPN and up crops an example of what I am talking about: Thanks For Providing Cover, Lloyd The demolition of Michigan's national championship hopes Saturday allowed several other coaches to fly under the condemnation radar after pitiful performances by their teams to open the season. Guys who should be sending fruit baskets to Ann Arbor include: Charlie Weis (5), Notre Dame -- Three million dollars a year for Weis. Three points for his offense in the opener against Georgia Tech. Not a great ROI. The Fighting Irish now have lost three straight by an average of 26 points. Getting housed by USC in Los Angeles and LSU in New Orleans? That can happen. Being crushed at home by an unranked team that hadn't won a road game by 30 points in six years? Former Irish coach Ty Willingham never did that.
NO WE DON'T in fact our path to the BCS is harder than any conference team. As a conference team you only have to win your conference, you don't have to finish in the top 12, that's just for starters. Then no conference team has a min win to be in the BCS, just win your conference. Texas was a 7 win team that lucked out and beat Neb in the 1st B12 conference championship game and got a BCS invite that Texas did not deserve. Then Kansas State was upset by the Aggies in another conference championship game that resulted in a BCS bid that the Aggies did not deserve. Fla. State did not deserve the BCS bid that they got 2 years ago, they won a couple of games at the end of the year and the ACC really stunk that season and they ended winning with what a 8 win record? They didn't deserve to be in the BCS. ND inorder to get a guaranteed BCS bid has to be in the top 8, inorder to be an at large team they have to be in the top 12. No conference team has that mountain to climb. Last year people complained that ND didn't deserve the BCS bid, that Wisconsin did or Auburn did...but those 2 teams were ineligible because of a BCS rule that the conferences voted in...remember ND only has 1 representative on the BCS and the conferences have 5.....that rule was put there out of conference jealousy. To remind you. <pre> 1 Ohio State 2 Florida 3 Michigan 4 LSU 5 USC 6 Louisville 7 Wisconsin 8 Boise State 9 Auburn 10 Oklahoma 11 Notre Dame 12 Arkansas 13 West Virginia 14 Wake Forest </pre> Red teams got BCS bids based on the rules, Boise State qualified because they finished in the top 12 and were a mid-major conference champion. It was automatic. ND would have had to finish in the top 8 and had 9 wins to get an automatic bid. The cyan teams were ineligible by BCS rule, which ND has 1 vote vs 5 for conferences. So in the end you had 9 teams selected by rules, and 1 team that the bowl committees could select from either Notre Dame or W.Virgina. So tell me again how ND gets favored treatment in this scheme? It seems to me that W.Virginia was screwed over by Wake Forrest.