Im curious to hear Terry's report. I did get his text message saying 'Its worse in person' that literally made me laugh out loud. One thing I was rather let down about was (aside from the result of the game) the crowd seemed to simultaneously mock the official late in the 4th quarter for his southern accent. I think he was saying 'reset the clock to 19' or something to that effect and it appears the crowd let out a instantaneous mock of his accent. Its something I picked up because I had head phones on (to temporarily block out insane southerners watching their games and an 8 year old who decided that his battle for Zelda must be fought at an ear rattling level of noise.. I am curious if it was as bad in person as it sounded thru the radio/tv broadcast... If so, that's bush league. We're better than that. On a related note... that crew sucked.
Corey, I was there. The official said something like, Please reset the clock to 3:10, and it came out "three tin". Yes, it hit the crowd, including me, as funny, but I did not hear anything that sounded like mocking. It was just one big spontaneous laugh. I don't consider that bush league. I consider it a mass version of, Oh my, what a cute southern accent. The refs did not lose the game for us, but they truly sucked. At one point, when our TE stood up to go in motion, the visitors' sideline ref immediately blew his whistle in a kneejerk way before he realized what was happening. There were several other instances where it was obvious that they were in over their heads, and it was very frustrating to be there in person and have to deal with their incompetence. It wasn't a matter of unbalanced calls. It simply was that they were in a state of confusion during the entire game. So....if there truly was a "mocking" of the refs for any reason at all, I can assure you that they deserved it.
dont get me wrong Sid <t>Im not even suggesting that the refs cost us the game.<br/> <br/> They just sucked. I was making a general statement.<br/> <br/> Thanks for the feedback on the question... what I heard was more of a mocking repeating back of what the ref said.. maybe there was just a mic open next to a spot of rowdies..it sounded like there were more than a few people who did it.. that is what I was referring to as being bush.<br/> <br/> As for the officials...<br/> <br/> The holding call... ehh I have long held that riding a DL to the ground is not holding. That being said, its called holding about 60% of the time. Turk should have (for once) let him go since the guy was on his way down. We just dont block smart. That's a 4 count play, no more than 5. No need to ride that guy 4 yards behind the LOS.<br/> <br/> The review of the spot..<br/> <br/> All I can say is WTF? They must have had a camera angle I didn't see. That ball was down on the 12.<br/> <br/> Somewhat of a new direction for this subject.<br/> <br/> NBC's coverage is just awful. I've held, going back to the *P days, that NBC's coverage has HURT ND on field product. Its impossible to keep home field momentum going.<br/> <br/> And the broadcasters are crap. Sheer crap. Drummond is a tool. Haden has moments where he is fair and seems to have a good point. There are other times where it just seems like he is digging for something simply to be arbitrary. Its old.<br/> <br/> I long for the days of an actual 'home' broadcast. I wish there were a way they could incorporate actual ND radio coverage with NBC coverage. Make it an actual HOME broadcast. There's nothing to truly affiliate with ND and its coverage other than the fact that they both suck at the moment.<br/> <br/> <br/> CBS's coverage is very PRO SEC and ACC. <br/> ABCs coverage is very PRO Pac10/Big10 and Big12.<br/> NBCs coverage is a tourist center... Friendly to all those visiting but an ugly pain in the ass if its your hometown.</t>
Bill, Yes, it was an ACC crew. I meant to mention that in my prior post, but I got so upset just talking about it that I forgot. As of yesterday, I understand what you mean when you talk about the incompetence of ACC officiating. :evil:
I agree. <t>The NBC coverage is poor but at least the games are on. I agree with Hayden on one thing though when he said "the ND O-Line has had a tough year and so far they are just not blocking anyone." IMO this is the beyond comprehenson how this deep into the season this group could still be this bad. I ran back the DVR last night just to see again and Sam Young and Turg #77 get worse each week. The question is what do you do with these guys next year? UGLY !!</t>
I don't know what to say, except that given USC's recent shedding of invincibilty and their injury situation we'd better put up a good fight and then the remaining 4 games of the season better be wins. Although given that Stanford upset SC, Air Force is having a good season, Navy beat Pitt and with our run defense I expect a lot of problems from them and Duke has shown signs of life this season, I don't think 4 game win streak to finish the season is a given. But I will put a lot into what Charlie does in those last 4 games, he will have a week off after the USC game and at that point freshmen aren't really freshmen if they have been playing a lot. So I darn sure better see and consistent offensive effort and a good defensive effort. If we don't then I don't have much hope that 2008 will be any great shakes of a season and that by year 5 Charlie will be out the door. I have considered that it is a possibility that Charlie is not suited to the college game, he loves ND, he has worked tremendously hard. In fact I doubt if there is a coach in the country who has worked harder than Charlie, I'm sure that there are those who work as hard but none harder. He's out on the roach recruiting, something Mack Brown doesn't do and he's gone the whole month of May not just a few days it's the whole month and he goes from coast to coast. So I will feel bad on a different level if Charlie fails. But he's never been a HC before and this is a tough gig to learn it on and his whole career for the most part is the Pros. While I know football is football but college football is more teaching and motivating, which is why Lou Holtz won more than 200 games. I also continue to be amazed at some of the things Charlie says in his press conferences. The whole discussion of Evan Sharpley and wheter or not he's a good practice player and stuff like that are just things he shouldn't get into the press with. That stuff belongs in the 1200$/year special newsletter (That was for Scott!). I've heard him say that he both plays mind games with the kids and that he doesn't play mind games with them, which is it Charlie? This has been a very bad season for Charlie, but inorder for things to sort of even out he needs to play well vs USC and to beat Stanford, Air Force, Navy and Duke and look like a team that is comming together. I don't know what to make of the defections. I understand Demetrius Jones, not necessarily the timing but backup QB's tend to do that. But when we have such a dearth of OL's why would Carfuel and Stewart both go AWOL? Stewart is back, we'll know soon on Carfuel. Somethings wrong and I don't know what it is. One of the things that Jack O'Brien used to always point out about ND and the numbers is that when we lose a kid he's replaced (maybe) with a freshman the next year. Most other teams can bring in a JC player or have a transfer ready to go and that slot is filled with an experienced player not a true freshman. So I don't like the fact that we've lost some kids. Sure it opens a slot, but for a freshman who won't likely help next year. People are calling for staff changes, I've observed over the years that Head coaches don't like that and drag their heels. Then more often than not the staff change doesn't fix anything. Right now the fans have Latina, Joppy Oliver and Pollian in their sights with Haywood and Ianello as underachievers/poor performers. I saw over on the Wild West board a USC fan take out after the USC staff as inbred and inexperienced, with the entire staff mostly young or never having been anyplace other than USC and that Pete needs to revamp his staff. I don't know what's the answer. but i do know that Charlie has 2 years to get things fixed, if we have a 9-3 or 8-4 season next year the seat will be red hot in 2009. Terry
Terry, a few things <t>1. Thanks for the in-game text. I can't tell you how well timed that was, and how heartily I laughed.<br/> <br/> 2. I'm with you about staff changes. Ole Tubesteak at Auburn is the king of that. He never claims to be a great coach, he lauds himself as a CEO type. The actual coaching and motivation of his team is done by the coordinators and position coaches. He'll throw your arse right under the bus in a minute. Personally, I just don't see positive gain or proper technique with the offensive line. We also need a full-time special teams coach.<br/> <br/> 3. I don't think it can be underestimated that CW hasn't lost this team. He may have lost some of the fan base, but that team is right there with him. Given the sheer atrocious performance and lack of leadership by the 5th years, I think that speaks well for Weis. Someone is keeping the kids in check.<br/> <br/> 4. The defections... I think that ND use to give the kids time to grow accustomed to life at ND...class, social life, and football.. These kids are getting tossed right under the microscope. That has to be tough.</t>
I may be throwing myself into the chopper here..I hope not, but just curious...I keep seeing references to lack of leadership of the seniors here. What brings that out? It seems that only team insiders would know about that, and if they are out complaining about it in public then the team has some serious chemistry issues. I know that it can happen...it happened at Purdue. The coaches complained about it, and then they were criticized for making it public.
Our Sr/Jr classes are very thin and not many great players, a few but not many. I think that is the basis for fans complaint about lack of Sr. leadership. True or not I don't know for sure, but it's the conventional internet wisdom.
Stu, Corey and I have mentioned it, but I'm the one who's beating that drum. What you have read are my personal observations only, a far cry from coaches' comments. I know what you are talking about re: Purdue. Wasn't it only 3 seasons ago when Tiller made it clear he was disappointed in the seniors? It showed on the field. He's a very good and long-experienced coach. I would trust his observations. He wouldn't have said it if he truly did not believe it was an issue. It happens. Personally, my basis for this "mantra" goes back about 17-20 years when my son played in HS in a very good and long-successful Indiana Catholic HS football program (3 state championships and always in the mix). I saw the class ahead of him not live up to hopes and expectations because the seniors as a group were a bunch of screw-offs who did not take the game seriously enough to realize how they were impacting the team's performance. The very next year, my son's senior class leadership demanded that the seniors stay away from any form of trouble during the season. They and numerous juniors gathered at our house every Friday night after the game. No booze, no girls, no parties throughout the entire season. Every single Friday night during the season we had 20 or more kids sleeping anywhere they could grab space, including the floor, because the team always had an early Saturday morning film session and workout following the Friday night games. They played cards and sat around BSing until they couldn't stay awake any longer. Here's an example of how successful this one-year tradition was: One senior - one - came to the co-captains and confessed that he had had some beer to drink at a wedding reception. He apologized to the other seniors and pledged not to drink again during the season. When have you ever heard of something like that happening on the HS level? I haven't, not before or since. The end result.....undefeated state champions and one of the consensus strongest teams ever to play in the state championship, according to numerous unbiased newspaper articles following the game and in the years since. It wasn't just the talent or the coaching. It was the senior leadership who kept their eyes on the prize before and throughout the entire season and influenced the underclassmen to follow suit. Ever since, I've watched closely how teams function vis-a-vis the senior leadership. At ND, there are good years and bad years in this regard, as I'm sure there are at other programs. This is the worst I've seen in 20 years. I'm not suggesting that these guys are screwing off or don't take the game seriously. I just believe that they don't have the ability or desire - or something - to set the tone for the rest of the team, the ability to set the bar high. To me it shows in a glaring way in the form of stupid penalties committed by one co-captain, fundamentally bad tackling by another (grabbing high, etc.), and fundamentally poor performance by yet another (e.g., hiking the ball over the QB's head multiple times). I also am not suggesting that this is the only reason for our poor on-field record. You have to look at coaching, lack of on-field experience, and lack of depth at key positions. Nevertheless in IMO it's a major, major factor.
aside <t>from Trevor Laws, who doesn't strike me as the 'leader' type, I have not seen any real 'follow me' type of leadership from our 4th and 5th year guys.<br/> <br/> We have freshman battling sophomores all over our depth chart and now the big plays are starting to come because the kid's are stepping past the older players to lead the team.<br/> <br/> You guys have all been following the Irish longer than I, but I can't remember such a total lack of senior leadership in the program. Now however, I do want this point made....<br/> <br/> There isn't a lot of them out there to lead... They are VERY small in number.</t>
Lack of senior leadership in numbers is fair. Lack of senior leadership in talent is fair. It just sounded like you were questioning other things...it was probably my residual programming from those Purdue "senior leadership" issues. Leadership is different from talent...but it's a lot easier to use your leadership abilities appropriately if you have the talent to go along with them.