OK....since there is a complete consensus on this forum so much so that all except for me and the deposed Rodney are in the 3 out of 10 who are Bush/Cheney Believers I would like to hear some arguments as to why you feel that way. Let's see some lists of his/their great accomplishments of the last 8 years since you guys all voted for him and felt he was the answer and the Democrats would be so wrong for the country and apparently you all still do and would like more of the same for the next 8 years. Touch upon things that matter to Americans such as the economy in general....the stock market...job security....the housing market and our world standing as the leader of the free world. I was inspired to start this topic because of this article but I would like to hear specifically on those topics I listed above. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25311529/>1=43001 Let's see some legitimate specifics instead of angry retorts and rhetoric. Oh...and "if you don't like things the way they are it would have been much worse under the Democrats"....is NOT the answer I'm looking for.
That article is about all the things that are/have happened that Bush has no control over. 9/11 Katrina/Rita Floods in the Midwest Increasing cost of food. Wild Fires in the West. Gas Prices High Cost of College Tuition. The only thing you could reasonably say wouldn't have happened if the Democrats had won is the War in Iraq, but not the War in Afghanistan. The public wanted and demanded retribution in Afghanistan. Pray tell what would Al Gore have done to prevent all of those things?
I agree 110% about Afghanistan and always have. So otherwise everything he has done has been the right thing and given the circumstances he had no control over the current state of all those political hot button issues I listed. I realize the MSN article is about to a certain extent things no one can control but some things could be better managed....like the Katrina aftermath and inaction since. You also have to wonder what good things a caring government could do with respect to oil/gas management and disaster recovery if we weren't so damned broke from our involvement in Iraq. And speaking of Iraq....our world standing and our credibility has deteriorated considerably in the last 8 years as a direct result of the Bush/Cheney led war in Iraq. We look about as inept and politically correct as we did in the 70s after the Vietnam fiasco. So far then we have one confirmation of a supporter who belongs in the 3 out of 10 category I mentioned.
You post every piece of crap you can find, and when we take issue with it we are all suddenly mindless robotic Bush supporters. Stuff it.
I voted for Bush 2x. I was never wildly enthused about him... I mainly voted for him becuase he was NOT Gore or Kerry. I am severely disappointed in him in this second term. I give him a mulligan on the first term becuase of 9.11. I think he has butchered the occupation of Iraq and because he is so myopic about the Iraqi war he has pretty much neglected all things domestic. I for one count the days until he is gone. Let me also say that I believe Congress is the greater evil in all of this. And lastly, I am horrified that it comes down to two choices like Obama and McCain.
ok i will bite <r><QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> -Everyone who doesn't agree with you is an angry apologist.<br/> <br/> (You didn't rule out ad hominem)</r>
*ding ding ding ding ding* <r>we have a winner!!<br/> <QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> George, as usual, sees thru the crap and calls it like it is<br/> <br/> <br/> What happened to that Pelosi mandate? What happened to the Democratic contract with america? Are will still within the first 100 days? Because they haven't done sh*t that they said they were going to do... except blame this all on the President..</r>
True about the Dem led Congress so far. If Obama is elected then let's see how things turn out after a period of reasonable time together like say 2 years. Seems like everything that the Dems propose at times publically is threatened by veto by Bush so maybe they don't make the table? Just conjecturing there.....no real knowledge of and haven't researched it. In any event it seems to me for the last 2 years or so in particular we have been devoid of leadership and the old saying is the fish rots at the head first....
Since the cry from the left was that the price of gas was just Bush rewarding his croney's in Texas, and that was back when gas was getting close to 2$/gal, I wonder what you Dems will say when Obama can't get the price of gas down at the pump. In fact I seem to remember Obama answering a question about the price of gas with ..he didn't like how fast it has run up but he's OK with 4$/gal or higher. Am I right on that?
Lets take housing. It's been the policy of most administrations to do things to increase home ownership. Minorities have traditionally lagged behind due to red-lining (illegal) and lack of capital to be home owners. The Bush Admin endorsed policies that increased homeownership, esp among minorities. Now that it's all gone bad and minorities are more affected, which is no suprise since they were the ones who needed all the special breaks to get into homeownership. Was the Admin doing a good thing? If they had instituted policies that made it harder for minorities to own homes we wouldn't have so many being foreclosed on...but would we have a large undercurrent of ill feeling that it was just another way the good ole' white boys in the Admin were keeping the black man down.
The crime in all that is that banks were being coerced by congress, and maybe the administration into lowering their qualifications for loans (albeit with their assent)...and now they are the ones going to jail.
Actually our world standing began to deteriorate as soon as the Soviet Empire fell. Since then countries like France that hid behind our skirts for decades after WWII suddenly stabbed us in the back. Heaven help us if we base our foreign policy on what the French want us to do. If nothing else, Bush let the rest of the world know that we don't give a f*ck what they think.
That he did Gipper and even if it looked like we were being the emperialist that they suspected us of being in the first place....
so, so much to address <r><QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> So how long do we wait? Given your time table above, one would believe that it would take Congress a full 4 years to do anything?? Let's not forget that they promised to have oh so many things done in the first 100 days. We have a system of checks and balances. If Bush threatens veto, there are other ways. During the Republican revolution in Congress during the Clinton term... they dug in and locked down the Fed. This Congress doesn't have the heart or moxie to do that.. Why should they?? They can slap down a big, fat bowl full of 'its the Presidents fault' and you are willing to dive in head first.<br/> <QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> Really now? Shall we stack up a historical timeline of events comparing the actions of America vs France acting in a selfless manner? How about global takeover attempts.<br/> <br/> Oh sure sure, the past never has anything to do with the present.. or so those who don't understand history would have you believe. All nation/states do, or at least should, act with their own self-interests in mind.. at least on some level.<br/> <br/> Only the United States is continually called to the carpet and asked to act in a totally self-less manner..<br/> <br/> And when the United States has done such, what reward do they reap?? Now I understand that asking that question does not reflect a selfless approach... but surely it is a question that begs to be asked when American lives are in danger, but French and other Euro pockets are being lined.<br/> <br/> Or should we just go back to being a colony?</r>
The following should be somewhat enligtening: When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return." It became very quiet in the room.
If you've ever been to the American cemetery at Normandy, you'd be struck by three things. First, there are thousands of Americans buried there. Second, it's a truely special place, kept immaculate by the Americns who tend to it. Third, the French are really back-stabbing bastards whose memory is as far back as their last election which seems to happen every year. So where exactly are the American "imperialists" in Iraq or Afghanastan? Quite frankly there's little difference between the two other than things are going better in Iraq and our media never reports that.
I am posting the link below because I see similarities between our costly and ongoing involvment in Iraq and the Soviet's boondogle if their own in Afghanistan. Unless we gain some petroleum based prosperity out of this fiasco in my opinion it remains just that.....a huge economic and political failure of the Bush administration's complete doing. http://wais.stanford.edu/History/history_ussrandreagan.htm "Particularly effective, though with unintended long-term side effects, was the Reagan administration’s support for the mujahideen (holy warriors) that were fighting against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Reagan was determined to make Afghanistan the Soviet Vietnam. Therefore in 1986 he decided to provide the mujahideen with portable surface-to-air Stinger missiles, which proved devastatingly effective in increasing Soviet air losses (particularly helicopters). The war in Afghanistan cost the United States about $1 billion per annum in aid to the mujahideen; it cost the Soviet Union eight times as much, helping bankrupt its economy." But hey....not everybody is going broke... "Halliburton said it earned $584 million, or 64 cents per share, in the three months ended March 31, up 6% from a year-earlier profit of $552 million, or 54 cents per share. Revenue rose to $4.03 billion from $3.42 billion a year earlier. The company attributed the results to growth in the Middle East, Asia and Latin America. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Financial had expected earnings of 64 cents per share on revenue of $3.99 billion. Halliburton shares rose three cents to $47. 46 Monday. They had reached an all-time high of $47.77 during trading Friday."
Someone should read Charlie Wilson's War or at least see he movie. I wouldn't give RR the credit for the Stingers. The division of Haliburton that was in Iraq was the Kellogg, Brown and Root division. Brown and Root were by far the greatest contributor to LBJ during his political career. I'd suggest Robert Caro's trilogy on LBJ as an excellent source of how the rich corporations especially the Texas ones supported LBJ and other Democrats.
Two points. It is my understanding that Hallibuton stands alone in its ability to handle the situations in the mid east , that no other company can match its capabilities. BIll Clinton must have thought so too since he used them extensively.