Peyton signs a letter of support for Fulmer and he plays the worst half of his football career. Take it back Peyton... take it back.
Tom, I respect your opinion on Fulmer and have friends that feel the same way. I have gone back and forth on the subject a little bit. I have never felt as strongly as some that Fulmer should be forced out. However, I have been disappointed in how unmotivated the team has looked at times this season. Recently I have turned in support of Fulmer. I'll wait until the season plays out before I truly make my mind up about what UT should do but I would like to throw some things at you to consider. I'm interested to see how you feel about them. 1) As most college football fans know, Fulmer has the best active winning percentage among active coaches. When you win over 75% of your games in a sixteen year span that's impressive wherever it is that you coach. Now, something that is somewhat deceiving about this number is that fact that Fulmer took over a very healthy Tennessee program and has never had to deal with the struggles involved in turning a program around like a Bobby Bowden or Steve Spurrier. I will grant you that but the winning percentage is enviable nonetheless. I would argue that he is trying to rebuild a Tennessee program's reputation now. 2) This team is chock full of freshmen. The recruiting class last year is starting to turn immediate dividends on the field this year. The contributions of guys like Eric Berry, Brent Vinson, Dennis Rogan, Lennon Creer, and Gerald Jones are already showing up big. Add on some contributions from the JUCO guys and consider the fact that some of the more heralded recruits haven't even been heard from yet and the future looks bright. 3) Who are we going to get that's better? Now, I know this is a topic that's tossed around a lot in UT circles but seriously, who will provide the same continuity and steady hand that Fulmer has shown over the last sixteen seasons? Certainly there are some names out there who might be interested in the UT job but 1)would they want a high pressure job in a state not exactly known for great high school football talent? 2)would the Athletic Department be willing to cough up the money to bring a top flight coach to Big Orange country? I think the answer to the second question is yes. The first question may be a little bit more complicated. Tennessee is a great program with a great tradition. But, they have built that tradition on an ability to recruit nationally. Certainly there are coaches out there who could continue doing just that but I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Tennessee job isn't as promising as some other SEC jobs like Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU whose states consistently turn out elite D-1 players. Tennessee as a state turns out their share as well but not on that consistent of a basis. Another thing to consider in recruiting is that a diminished national reputation may lead to a more difficult time recruiting at a national level which makes me think it may not be the most opportune time for Tenn to go on a coaching search. Now, who is your choice to take over. I have been guilty of saying that Cutcliffe should take over as Fulmer willingly resigns but that doesn't really get us anywhere. If I had my pick I would take Rich Rodriguez from WVa but why would he want to leave? Additionally, Tennessee would have to change many of their schemes to do what has made Rodriguez successful. The appeal of the NFL style schemes that Tennessee has to potential recruits has to be worth something in the recruiting wars. Who else would be on my wish list? Maybe Schiano and certainly Leavitt from USF could be appealing. How about Bud Foster from Virginia Tech? I just don't know if these guys would be a significant upgrade. This is an area that I would really like to hear your thoughts about. 4) This team could be a real contender next season. The skill position talent that returns is astonishing with the exceptions of QB and TE. These two positions don't worry me for two reasons: 1) I think Crompton is very capable and 2) TE has traditionally been an extension of the UT offensive line. Speaking of lines, this is the area that UT may struggle next season. While the O-line is young and exceptionally talented, the D-line loses 3 starters. This is an area that Tenn needs to recruit heavily this season. Regardless, I think Tennessee could be in for big things next season. 5) This is probably the most important. I understand the disgruntled feeling UT fans have about the current state of affairs in Knoxville. However, to root against the team as I've heard some people make reference to in order to speed along a coaching change is ludicrous. I can't believe how many people who call themselves fans do this. Like Fulmer or not, a fan should root for their team. You may be right in saying that, in your opinion, losing may be better for UT football in that Fulmer would more quickly leave. Consider though the publicity and positives that could be taken from an SEC championship win over an LSU team that could be playing for the title. I would like nothing more than to see Tennessee ruin their title hopes like they did the Volunteers' in '01. You are correct in asserting that a team from the SEC east with three losses being in the game is disgraceful from one of the most traditionally tough divisions of any league in the nation but if someone does it, why not UT and why not root for them to pull it off? Another thing, I would feel pretty good about the Vols' chances. They would be an underdog and would be very tired of hearing about LSU and we know how they've played this season when they have been doubted. That's the argument for both of our perspectives though, this team seems to be motivated more by the media than by their coaches. If that continues as the season goes on and UT loses to, say, Vandy then I may be firmly entrenched in your camp but until then (and even after that happens if it happens), GO VOLS!
Aquila Most of the time I keep my opinions to myself on this board. Let me say a few things now. 1. That equates to about 50% in the last 5 years. We have been "rebuilding" for quite some time. 2. The freshmen are awesome. But you should have them playing this well long before 3 games left in the season. Some of them have been here since the summer. 3. I don't know who would be better. I think he has been a good coach, and still is a great recruiter. But, what do we do with that talent once they're here. Look at Ainge. He had a phenomenal freshman season. Then he got worse. He has never been the same long ball throwing man. He is accurate now, but not as daring. 5. "I know I skipped 4. Nothing to say on that. This coaching staff has been unable or unwilling to motivate this team at all for years unless the coaches jobs are on the line or the team's "manhood" is questioned. This is not acceptable. I know you can't be "up" all the time, but this is rediculous. I always support my team. But, it's now very hard to support the coaching staff. Go Vols
Aquila, I mean no disrespect in asking you this: How old are you? You sound like a tape recorder playing my words and thoughts at 18 years old and again at 35 years of age. I go back to the Bill Battle era. I have seen this program hit all time lows under a well liked coach. As a senior in high school, I watched the firmly entrenched Tennessee coach find himself in the battle of his young life. I felt bad and thought him to be mistreated by the alumni that wanted him out. When Johnny Majors took over, he was welcomed with open arms as the band played: When Johnny comes marching home. He had just won a national championship at Pitt and everyone thought that he could do the same at Tennessee. We later found that his assistants were probably more responsible for that success than he was. When Johnny Majors began feeling the pressure to win late in his career at UT, I made statements just like the ones you are making. I was 35 years old when Johnny went into the hospital and Fulmer took over the team as interim head coach. This group was on Prodigy in those days and I was one of three Vols that supported Majors to the end. (we had about 25 to 30 Vol fans on those boards before they closed) I couldn’t understand people speaking out against the coach. That was just something in which I could not, would not participate. I was at Fulmer’s first bowl game as head coach. I actually expressed to Cindy: “There will be no difference here. Fulmer learned from Majors. In our first series, we’ll run up the middle, run up the middle, incomplete pass, and punt.” I remember that first series like it was yesterday. Heath Shuler was the QB. Our first play from scrimmage was a bomb from Shuler that was caught at the 6 yard line. Maybe the Majors supporters like me were wrong. Maybe we did need a fresh mind at the helm. It was at that bowl game that I finally got behind Fulmer 100%. The future was bright again. Majors struggled against Bama and Florida. Fulmer had beaten Florida as interim head coach while Johnny was out. The new regime was in and everyone was happy. Fulmer finally brought the NC that Johnny could not accomplish. Everyone was in love with the program even though we stumbled along the way that year. Cindy and I were at the Arkansas game where the NC quest almost ended. I’m here to tell you that we had some special players on that team that were far more important in attaining that NC than Phil Fulmer was. Al Wilson was the motivating force that coached up that defense to force the mistake that won that Arkansas game for us. We are now witnessing a Tennessee team that comes out unmotivated and look to be totally ignorant of the basics in football 101. That is the fault of the coach… the person that should be motivating them to be the best they can be. Fulmer has gone from the man that had the guts to tell Phil Sims that he would start the best QB, not the biggest name, to the jellyfish that gave Rick Clausen more time in order to try to recruit the Clausen that is now at Notre Dame. That really worked out didn’t it? Who do we get? I don’t have to provide specifics here. Look at perennial bottom dwelling programs that are now making people sit up and take notice. Connecticut at 8-2 and leading the Big East? Basket Ball right? No! Football! Cincinnati has also done more with less. Just these two programs alone have been slaughtered in the recruiting wars. They don’t have the name or the facilities that we do. However, they have motivated the players they have to attain new heights. Can you imagine what those coaches could do with our players?
You need big plays from big players to win the NC. UT took advantage in '98 of Florida's kicker missing his kick, UT's kicker making his, and in that Fla game if you recall T Martin was headed for a sure sack out of OT FG range but he wiggled out and ran 13 yards out of the defender's grasp to set up that winning kick and last but not least there was Travis Henry vs. Ark running like a man with 9 illegitimate kids after Stoner's inexplicable fumble :lol: In any event the players and plays were indeed huge for Tenn but the coaching staff held it all together. I feel that Tenn had the easiest SEC East schedule this year and certainly one more loss and they would be out but to the Vols credit they beat Ga. If the Vols get to a hungry Kentucky team in Lexington and can pull that one off I think they deserve a shot at LSU. If Tenn shows up and gives LSU a game then all is forgiven for Phil by UT fans. If the Vols pull a didappearing act in any of their remaining games like has been the case in the last few years then Phil is in troule.
Now if that is French for "deep doggie doooooo", I believe he has already attained that status. :evil: If he does motivate this team to win out, including the SECCG and the Sugar Bowl, he will get a brief reprieve from me. How brief??? Until he loses to Florida again! :x
Look, your points are well taken, Tom and Cindy, however, I still feel that things aren't as bad as they seem. I think the right coach could be a burst of fresh air for UT football. I just think that Fulmer should go out on his terms. Like I said, I have been kind of back and forth on this topic for most of the season. If Tennessee doesn't show up against Vandy and UK then maybe I'll reconsider but I just think given the youth of this team, you can't throw Fulmer under the bus yet. I know this is a world of what have you done for me lately and Cindy's right in saying that Fulmer's success has been greatly tarnished in the last few years. Programs go through highs and lows though. Tennessee had been on a high since the mid 90s that ran all the way through the early 2000s. Tennessee then won the East in '04 before falling flat in '05. These things happen. I think if the Vols had their 5-6 year in '04 rather than '05 when not a lot was expected the whole outlook on Fulmer's success would be different. The surprise '04 season got everyone amped up and then let down hard in '05 when the ball never bounced UT's way. A lot of the blame can certainly be placed on Fulmer for mishandling the QB situation. I understand your frustration with him playing Clausen, Tom. However, I think there was more to it than just trying to lure in Jimmy Clausen. The team rallied around Rick, that was obvious in the LSU game in '05. Ainge had a troubled psyche and I think Fulmer knew that but he added to it by delaying the decision on the QB and then wavering during the season on his decision. A lot can be said about these topics but I just wanted to respond to your original post with some things for you to consider. I guess you've already considered though and nothing will change your mind. That's OK, I'm not even saying you're wrong for feeling the way you do. I do, however, think it's a shame for some UT fans to root against the Vols football team. If you root against the coaches you ARE rooting against the team, IMO. For your information, I'm 25. Don't quite see how that's relevant but there you go. I think, for now, we'll have to agree to disagree. I may agree to agree later on if this football team doesn't get up for its remaining games with everything on the line.
Aquila, I'm mildly surprised you are only 25. I hope you don't mind that a 63 yr. old guy uses your style as an example of how to post opinions and dissenting opinions with respect and reason. I was in my late 40s when this internet thingy hit the scene, and I've been learning ever since how to handle myself in forums like this one. I feel like I'm making progress, but I still have a long way to go.
Sid, I'm honored you consider me as such. I appreciate the compliment. I owe a lot to my parents. My Dad's an old time Hell Fire and Brimstone type preacher with high moral and ethical standards. I am not nearly the man he is but a little rubbed off on me.
Good thread, I think everybody has some valid points. Aquila I'm curious how you found us, you're too young to be a Prodigy hold over at age 25. Terry
Actually, Terry, when I was 17 or 18 I was posting on a Tennessee site (Volquest I think) and Tom was a frequent poster there as well. He invited me to join the skybox and I've been here ever since although until recently I had just been lurking for the last few years. I love the site. I think the idea of having a site with lots of fans from different schools and trying to keep conversations relatively civil is a great idea and I think Skybox is second to none in that regard. I love hearing the Big 10, Notre Dame, Pac 10, Big 12, Boston, and all of the other fans give their opinion along with fans of the SEC. I believe that most everything in life is a matter of perspective. Reading posts on skybox opens me up to the perspectives of others who have a totally different take on things. I greatly enjoy it.
Aquila, I hope you didn't take offense in my asking your age. I was not saying you were being childish or anything like that. I was just pointing out that you were expressing opinions that I had when I was 18 and then again at the age of 35. I suspected that you had not been through one of the regime ousters before. Being 25 right now means that you were born 6 years after I fought the first battle of coaching change. I was in high school playing varsity football arguing with the other team members that coach Battle was who I wanted to play for. He was a very likable person. Now that I look back on it with 31 years of hindsight, yes, he was a likable person but not much of a coach. Being 25 right now means that you were about 10 when I was fighting the same battle you are fighting now. I thought that everyone who was against the coach was also against the team. I chastised Prodigy members for wanting Johnny Majors to leave. I and two others formed a camp and circled the wagons to fight off those members that wanted to sign Fulmer immediately thinking that we would lose him, the glorious leader that had beaten Florida that year, if we did not. When Johnny returned to the team and we immediately lost the next game, his fate was sealed. We three had lost the battle. I now look back at Johnny. As a coach, young in his Tennessee career, he was energetic, enthusiastic, and unpredictable in his play calling. In the final years, the game had passed him by, he was lethargic, predictable, and he found solice in the bottom of a bottle. Phil, though far from the bottle issue, is strolling through the same pastures Johnny wondered through in those final years. If he wants to go out on top, I think he missed that boat back in January of 1999. I was at the Fiesta Bowl. I remember him thanking “this loyal bunch of Volunteer fans” on the public address system. He is a great man that Tennessee owes a debt of gratitude. However, it is time for him to move on and show his loyalty to the program by not letting it hit bottom before he gets a clue. I would like nothing more than for Phil to prove me wrong. Silence me by winning out and then taking Florida to the wood shed next year. :shock: I am not asking to be undefeated every year. I’m just asking that when we do lose a game, that we be in the game until the end. … and that we do not lose to Florida, Georgia, or Alabama every freaking year. … and that we never lose a game to Kentucky, Vandy, Ole Miss, or Mississippi State (well, MissSt is getting much better… their coach looking to upgrade???) :?
I am not trying to start a big fire here but you do know that as far as I am concerned Fulmer has beaten Florida only once in the last 6 games with that lone win coming in 2003. Zook's farewell was hastened by that zebra assisted win in 2004 that even Phil must feel he was damned lucky to be able to pull out. I am sure there are a few Tenn fans somewhere out there that may feel the same way about that game as time goes on and Phil's teams continue to be so average. I have to believe that more feel like Tom does in that if they edge out Fla this year for the SEC East after the lopsided game in Gainesville in Sept. they will count their lucky stars they didn't play LSU already and if the Vols lose to LSU and go 9-4 the bowl game will be critical to evaluating Phil's season. 9-5 with a bowl loss would do absolutely squat for the Vol fans wrt to Fulmer.